Styles dying out

[Mitlov]

Before: How can you expect someone that practices a system that takes 30 years to master to beat anyone before 30 years of training?

After: Yes he has had 30 years of training, but how can you expect someone so old to beat anyone?


The ouroboros of TMA.

Straw man. I can't comment on other styles, but I've never once met anyone in karate, TKD, or TSD who claims you need 30 years to have useful skills.

 

[jobo]

Just an observation. While you have not mentioned the training time, that's usually how it goes.(the recent aikido threads come to mind)

Well you cant hold me respobsible for that, ive had heated debates, with the more delusional, for saying things like, if you start as an adult, your as good as your going to be, in any practical sence, in about say 5 years, quite proberbly a good bit less.wiith application and effort,

 

[Hanzou]

Back to wild clsims, they werent two people onn the street, they were in some sort of structure

When I say "street" I'm talking about an unpredictable environment outside of the Kung Fu practitioners dojo and not involving one of his students.

Itvwas an athletic challenge, what has sanctioned got to do with that, it would be an " athletic event" c event if they decieded to have a foot race, the younger/ fitter one would still most likely win

Unless the person he was racing against was a professional runner with decades of experience. The same applies for fighting.

No your claim was specifically he only had 6 months training, are you with drawing that claim now,? then we can ask you to back up yiyr latest one

I'm still claiming that he had limited experience. My guess would be 6 months. However, you still haven't answered my question: What is YOUR claim in regards to his training time? If you agree with me that its a short amount of time (under 12 months), then what exactly are you arguing here?

 

[Hanzou]

Imagine what would happen if we held boxing to that standard, and evaluated Freddie Roach, not on his coaching ability, but on whether he personally could beat some young dude from another style in a challenge match.

Whether or not you like Hung Gar, the fact that an athletic youth beat up an older Hung Gar instructor really doesn't prove much.

So now we're saying that Kung Fu becomes ineffective if you're fighting a younger/more fit person?

Interesting.

 

[Martial D]

Well you cant hold me respobsible for that, ive had heated debates, with the more delusional, for saying things like, if you start as an adult, your as good as your going to be, in any practical sence, in about say 5 years, quite proberbly a good bit less.wiith application and effort,

I wasn't, and am not. My post wasn't a reply to you in specific.

 

[Martial D]

Straw man. I can't comment on other styles, but I've never once met anyone in karate, TKD, or TSD who claims you need 30 years to have useful skills.

You missed the context.

Which was excuses for repeated failures in the combat application of TMA.

 

[jobo]

When I say "street" I'm talking about an unpredictable environment outside of the Kung Fu practitioners dojo and not involving one of his students.



Unless the person he was racing against was a professional runner with decades of experience. The same applies for fighting.



I'm still claiming that he had limited experience. My guess would be 6 months. However, you still haven't answered my question: What is YOUR claim in regards to his training time? If you agree with me that its a short amount of time (under 12 months), then what exactly are you arguing here?

I dont need a claim, for his tRaining level, you MADE a claim , you need to back it up.

The kung fu guy is not a profesional fighter, he diesnt to either of iur knowledge, fight for money, he may be a profesional t Instructor, but thats not the same thing, thats just another wild claim to make a case iut of nothing.

So far youve claimed, the guy has only six months training, you have no idea, !

That they are fighting on a street?????????????
ThaT the kung fu guy is a profesional fighter,

And you say the tma guys are delusional

 

[Hanzou]

I dont need a claim, for his tRaining level, you MADE a claim , you need to back it up.

I've backed it up multiple times.

The kung fu guy is not a profesional fighter, he diesnt to either of iur knowledge, fight for money, he may be a profesional t Instructor, but thats not the same thing, thats just another wild claim to make a case iut of nothing.

So far youve claimed, the guy has only six months training, you have no idea, !

That they are fighting on a street?????????????
ThaT the kung fu guy is a profesional fighter,

And you say the tma guys are delusional

So again, is your argument that Kung Fu is ineffective against younger, more fit assailants?

 

[jobo]

So again, is your argument that Kung Fu is ineffective against younger, more fit assailants?

No my argument is any style is in increasing amounts ineffective against a younger fitter opoinent, dependent on how much younger fitter he happens to be. That even more so if the guy is trained,

 

[pdg]

Just a slight observation...

I'm not sure at all that age is relevant in much of a way.

I'm fitter and more able than plenty of people that are younger than me, and I'm more than sure that there exist people older than me who are fitter and more able...

 

[jobo]

Just a slight observation...

I'm not sure at all that age is relevant in much of a way.

I'm fitter and more able than plenty of people that are younger than me, and I'm more than sure that there exist people older than me who are fitter and more able...

Its younger / fitter, which are if your dealing with trained athletes synomous, but Older and fitter works to, up to a point, where your reaction speed goes,,,but im very much aware that a 28 year old me, would just destroy a 59 year old me, even if the old me has a lit more ma experiance

 

[pdg]

Its younger / fitter, which are if your dealing with trained athletes synomous, but Older and fitter works to, up to a point, where your reaction speed goes,,,but im very much aware that a 28 year old me, would just destroy a 59 year old me, even if the old me has a lit more ma experiance

Fair enough.

Personally speaking though, right now I'm probably as fit as I've ever been.

I'm hoping for a few more uphill years too...

 

[Hanzou]

No my argument is any style is in increasing amounts ineffective against a younger fitter opoinent, dependent on how much younger fitter he happens to be. That even more so if the guy is trained,

That's fine, but why are you applying it in this case?

Could it be because you dont want to admit that Bey's training was ineffective?

 

[Headhunter]

No, it hasn't died out.... yet.

Here's two interesting articles about traditional martial arts in China and how MMA has begun to wipe out their native systems. I can only imagine that this is accelerating as MMA and BJJ has grown in popularity in China:

Exit the Dragon? Kung Fu, Once Central to Hong Kong Life, Is Waning
Kung Fu’s Identity Crisis

And in America:
Where have all the martial artists gone? Should we blame MMA?




Again, it isn't propaganda if that belief is being supported over and over and over again.

You don't half talk a load of rubbish. Mma has been around in mainstream since 1993 it's been popular in Asia even longer and in25 years name me one style that's completely died out....so you can keep churning out your nonsense about how Mma is the best ever and now everyone hates every other style apart from the amazing perfect Mma but it's simply not true and frankly you're making yourself look silly by saying this rubbish

 

[Hanzou]

You don't half talk a load of rubbish. Mma has been around in mainstream since 1993 it's been popular in Asia even longer and in25 years name me one style that's completely died out....so you can keep churning out your nonsense about how Mma is the best ever and now everyone hates every other style apart from the amazing perfect Mma but it's simply not true and frankly you're making yourself look silly by saying this rubbish

You clearly didnt read the articles.

 

[Headhunter]

That's fine, but why are you applying it in this case?

Could it be because you dont want to admit that Bey's training was ineffective?

Lol you've got an obsession with this bey guy you've mentioned him about 20 times. That's 1 person out of thousands

 

[Headhunter]

You clearly didnt read the articles.

No I didn't haven't got time to read all that nonsense. I know what I've seen with my own eyes and no style is dying out

 

[jobo]

That's fine, but why are you applying it in this case?

Could it be because you dont want to admit that Bey's training was ineffective?

Because, its extremley aplicable to the vid you chose to post showibg a 50 ish yo against a 26ish yo.

If you were comparing like with like, lets say a 25 yoweightvtraining running, karate fitness fanatic against against the same, with mma training yiu might have a case to build,

 

[Hanzou]

Lol you've got an obsession with this bey guy you've mentioned him about 20 times. That's 1 person out of thousands

Because Jobo took it upon himself to make excuses for him.

The main point is that people can get mad at Joe Rogan saying that MMA and BJJ are the way to go, but the simple reality is that his notions get reinforced by incidents such as what I posted.

 

[Hanzou]

Because, its extremley aplicable to the vid you chose to post showibg a 50 ish yo against a 26ish yo.

If you were comparing like with like, lets say a 25 yoweightvtraining running, karate fitness fanatic against against the same, with mma training yiu might have a case to build,

So you're saying that a Kung Fu master with a great lineage and 30 years experience cant beat some random guy wanting to box him?

That's not a good way to build faith in your system of traditional martial arts.