Students Searched.....By Teachers!
- Thread starter MJS
- Start date
I'm quite sure it should be illegal too. If you where in a store, and something went missing, so the manager decided to search everyone in the store the same way, I think they'd be looking at lawsuits and possibly criminal charges.
One thing that I very strongly believe is that if authority figures treat kids like dirt, the kids will return the favour. Whether its teachers, security guards, cops or anyone else.
If those kids parents weren't called prior, they may have been in violation of law.
Then again, kids have no rights. I was told that as a kid repeatedly.
Then again, kids have no rights. I was told that as a kid repeatedly.
The poor lesson of this is entirely reinforced by the fact that the search "did not turn up the missing money".
ChadWarner
Green Belt
OP
- Thread Starter
- #7
It was simply a suggestion. Of course, IMO, it would be a better option than a bunch of teachers taking the law into their own hands, conducting a search, that will most likely put the school and the district in danger of a lawsuit. BTW, you would be very surprised as to what people call the police over. I say this, because I see it on a daily basis.
Perhaps you could share some of your ideas.
Lets see:
Translation: We broke our own rules, and we slapped out people on the wrist, please don't sue us.
Translation: We broke our own rules, and we slapped out people on the wrist, please don't sue us.
Empty Hands
Senior Master
It is pretty much true in the confines of the school. 4th amendment rights in particular don't really exist, which the periodic shakedowns of every kid's locker and the extensive drug testing should show us. The Supreme Court mostly agrees, with a lower standard required for a search than for the general public.
What is particularly worrying now is the schools extending disciplinary actions for offenses committed outside of school. Particularly in regards to stuff on MySpace and the like.
Just how hard do they want to grind the boot down? What is worse is that the parents mostly go along with it because they can't be bothered to do their jobs properly, so they want the school to do it for them.
ChadWarner
Green Belt
Actually I am not surprised by anything. Not by people going to the er room with a cold or police shootings. You have to be caught to be punished. That is our law in the US. Whoever took it got away with it... I am opposed to punishing all for the crime of one. That is what dictators do.
Yes make it known for five dollars everyone is guilty but the teacher who did the wrong thing just get told they where wrong.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #12
Well, lets see where we stand. We have missing money, $5 to be exact. We have a room full of students that were patted down by teachers, who last I knew, were not qualified or within their duties, to perform said action. I agree that only the person who took the money should be punished. I suggested calling the police to conduct an investigation. Afterall, it is a theft. Your post, IMO, suggested that calling the police was foolish. If I'm wrong, I appologize in advance, but thats the impression I got. I asked for your solution to the situation, and didn't get one.
As far as I'm concerned, a) teachers should not be conducting criminal investigations or patdowns, b) the student(s) responsible should be punished by the school, c) if this is such a big 'to-do' which, judging by the actions of the school, it is, why not call the cops? Afterall, this is a larceny, and its their job to investigate criminal activity.
ChadWarner
Green Belt
No not foolsih... way too harsh for 3rd graders. They are kids and I am dead set against using the full weight of the government in any way shape or form against innocent kids. I did give a solution. The fact that whoever did it got away with it was the action. There is no resolve only an executive decision, such as put money in a lock box in the future... Not playing detective for 5 dollars when there are murders, assaults and rapes prolly right down the road somewhere that need attentions...
grydth
Senior Master
This type of grotesque stupidity by those allegedly providing education is becoming common place. Do they not see the weekly stories of teachers fired or even jailed for inappropriate contact with children?
All it would take is one child to tell their parents," He kept touching me THERE, where you said nobody is supposed to." ........ and next thing you know the teacher is arrested and in front of a judge facing sexual abuse charges....... that is, assuming the enraged father doesn't decide to pat the teacher down with a baseball bat.
All it would take is one child to tell their parents," He kept touching me THERE, where you said nobody is supposed to." ........ and next thing you know the teacher is arrested and in front of a judge facing sexual abuse charges....... that is, assuming the enraged father doesn't decide to pat the teacher down with a baseball bat.
While I agree strongly that the patting down and searching (partial strip search... removing socks and shoes is partial) is out of their jurisdiction and rights as educators.
It would seem ridiculous to call the police on for $5.00 unless it would've been designed to give a good object lesson done in the right tone/manner.
But simply asking "who took the money?" you know they're not going to get an answer to that one... especially 3rd graders who know the depths of trouble they'll get into at that age.
So how to find out without doing the stereotypical marine barracks routine of punish one/punish all if nobody comes forward and accepts the responsibility?
But seeing how this was a substitute teacher (and who ever really respected those huh?) and that the money wasn't found...
What would've been a more viable option... because if whomever stole it gets away with it once... they'll do it again won't they?
It would seem ridiculous to call the police on for $5.00 unless it would've been designed to give a good object lesson done in the right tone/manner.
But simply asking "who took the money?" you know they're not going to get an answer to that one... especially 3rd graders who know the depths of trouble they'll get into at that age.
So how to find out without doing the stereotypical marine barracks routine of punish one/punish all if nobody comes forward and accepts the responsibility?
But seeing how this was a substitute teacher (and who ever really respected those huh?) and that the money wasn't found...
What would've been a more viable option... because if whomever stole it gets away with it once... they'll do it again won't they?
Fiendlover
Black Belt
i agree. :snipe2::bird
h no way. our school has strict laws about this. when they send in the search dogs they are not allowed to snif the person but asks us to leane so that our stuff r sniffed and theyre not even allowed to snif the lockers let alone pat ppl down. no way i smell law suits........ if someone told me to do that that wasnt a police officer i would raise hell like no other. :321::ticked:
What happened to lines? There are all sorts of ways the teachers could have handled this without making these kids feel like criminals.
This burns my butt.
This burns my butt.
Yes, lines. Almost forgotten about writing I will not do this or that 1000 times or whatever the teacher felt appropriate at the time. Sheesh. Miserable... at least I didn't have Deloris Umbridge for a teacher
But again, it boils down to catching the one who did it. If they don't know then it wouldn't be fair to make anyone or everyone write lines or whatever they come up with, unless they know who done it. It's guilty before innocence.
In a lot of cases, school personnel have more right to search students and lockers and such than police do. Often school policy will specifically address this issue. 4th ammendment doesn't apply to school admins. 4th ammendment is to provide protection from abuse by legal authorities. School personnel, in many cases, act in loco parentis. If I was called to respond to $5 missing in a classroom of third graders, then I would seriously question the common sense of the admins or teachers. Before I was employed as an LEO, I worked for a time in an alternative school in Cleveland. We searched every kid, every day, before they could come into the school. We checked pockets and bookbags for security reasons. It was spelled out in policy. It was perfectly legal and reasonable in the circumstances. Males staff checked male students, female staff checked female students.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #20
Well, like I said, it was just a simple suggestion.
Now, I do think that it was wrong for the teachers to pat the students down. Obviously the money wasn't found. So, rather than do what they did, and if calling the police is not a good idea, chalk it to a lesson learned...lock the money up and if the school wants, give the class an hours worth of after school detention, extra homework, etc. Its going to be interesting to see if this situation moves on at all.
