Teachers cheating...

[billc]

How could I not post this little story about 178 teachers changing test scores for over 10 years.


http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/07/06/massive-teacher-cheating-scandal-uncovered-in-atlanta/

from the article:

An investigation into Atlanta’s public school system has uncovered evidence that teachers and principals have been secretly erasing and correcting answers on students’ tests for as long as a decade. A state investigation found that 178 educators at 44 of the district’s 56 schools engaged in cheating. The report is a huge blow to an urban school district that for years was hailed as one of the country’s most successful due to increased student performance.
From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

The report stated that children were denied special-educational assistance because their falsely reported CRCT scores were too high, and during testing, teachers pointed to the correct answer while standing at students’ desks.

 

[granfire]

you have something against teachers?

A handful of teachers....

 

[billc]

Just another example of what happens when the government is in charge of something, in this case education. I can't wait till they have absolute control over every aspect of our health.

 

[Nomad]

You're right. The free market would do much better at something like this. Maybe we could put Goldman-Sachs in charge... they're a bunch of upstanding fellas who are already used to self-regulation.

 

[billc]

Hmmm...there is a stat out there that 40% of public school teachers send their own kids to private schools. When I was in the national guard all the guys from the city went to the catholic schools because the chicago city schools were so bad. I don't see a lot of people buying their I-phones, I-pads and their x-boxes and play station 3's from government stores. At least not yet. I'm am reading "The Politically incorrect guide to Socialism," trying to finish it at least, and the author makes the Gordon Gecko point. In the new movie one of the jokes is when Gecko gets out of jail he is given back his Brick Phone. The author points out that at the time of the first movie that phone cost multi-thousands of dollars and not that many people had them. the private sector, in a very short period of time has given us more selection of cell phones with better coverage and affordability. I mean what used to be only for the rich is now a necassary item for just about every teenager in the country. The point of the author is that if cell phones were developed the way public schools are run, there would be one choice of phone and it wouldn't work well at all. So yeah, I think private schools would educate kids better.

 

[punisher73]

you have something against teachers?

A handful of teachers....

If it were found out that 178 LEO's in Atlanta were found to have changed evidence and falsified police reports for over a decade, this story would be HUGE and would be on every station across the nation and there would be a gigantic public outcry. It's a shame that this story was kind of brushed under the rug and didn't get much publicity for the amount of damage that was done to kids who needed help and didn't get it.

I don't see it as anything against teachers, but more of a statement that the principals were involved and encouraged this behavior and is a reflection of where we are putting our values in public education.

 

[granfire]

If it were found out that 178 LEO's in Atlanta were found to have changed evidence and falsified police reports for over a decade, this story would be HUGE and would be on every station across the nation and there would be a gigantic public outcry. It's a shame that this story was kind of brushed under the rug and didn't get much publicity for the amount of damage that was done to kids who needed help and didn't get it.

I don't see it as anything against teachers, but more of a statement that the principals were involved and encouraged this behavior and is a reflection of where we are putting our values in public education.

Well, we are not talking about police who are supposed to be abiding by the laws.

I am trying to point out how billi got a chip on his shoulder when it comes to those evil teachers.
A handful of teachers in a metropolitan area of more than 4 million people has been caught cheating.
it's despicable, no doubt. However hyperbole billi likes to make ti sound like all teachers everywhere are cheating.

I think it fails to look at the issue why it seemed necessary for those people to resort to such things. I have serious doubts they took home a bigger paycheck because of it.

 

[billc]

I like teachers, but this story didn't seem to get the attention it deserved here on the study. 178 x 30 (students per average class) = 5,340 kids, over a ten year period = 53,400 kids. Not exactly a small number. How many lives were damaged by these teachers? How many of these teachers will be protected by the union and actually be able to keep their jobs?

I'm also posting about the fast and furious scandal that implicates the D.E.A, the A.T.F. the justice department, the department of homeland security the F.B.I. and the state department, allowing drug gangs in mexico to get guns supplied by the A.T.F. Do you think I have a chip on my shoulder about cops?

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I actually find this to be a pretty alarming article in and of itself, but keep its limitations in mind. The number of teachers caught, 178, maybe a good chunk of the Atlanta school district's teacher population, but it is laughably small when talking on the scale of national education. The article indicates corruption in this specific school district; it isn't damning of public education writ large.

And I could easily turn this into evidence against conservative educational approaches as well. You think this kind of crap wouldn't happen in a privatized educational system? Where standardized testing is so powerfully favored? These actions were taken by teachers and school administrators wanting to keep their jobs and gain more funding; that would not change going from a public to a private system.

In my opinion, this story illustrates a major problem with standardized testing. When a lot rides on test results, there is a lot of pressure to make sure those answers are correct. If we chose alternative measures of success, the results of a single test score would not be so pivotal.

Thank you for sharing the article, but I think trying to use it for an attack against public schooling misses the mark.

 

[MA-Caver]

I too find it alarming. That there are people out there actually stupider than they were told they were because their educators changed their test answers and scores. Nothing was taught there it seems. The kid(s) learned just enough but not what could actually help them later in life or get into college to get an even better education.
Why the teachers have done this and how so many of them could be in collusion is really what's shocking. Were they just wanting to get the dumb kids out of their classes faster?

Shameful...

No, not ALL teachers... just those 178 should be fired without pensions or anything... likewise shouldn't be allowed to teach anymore.

This is going to drastically change how grading will be done and I dunno if it's going to be a good thing or a bad thing. Depends upon what the changes may be.

 

[Ken Morgan]

When you have a system that is evaluated only on standardised testing combined with teachers pay, bonuses and promotions are all based on the scores their students get on those tests, did anyone really expect anything different to happen?
Teachers, Principals and government employees need to be held accountable for student education, Yes, but what about the parents? What about budget cuts? What about kids who tell you to go **** yourself?
This is an example of a deeper problem then just teachers changing test scores, this is a system where no one wants to take responsibility for the students.

 

[billc]

Thanks Randomphantom700. In a private school environment it would be easier to get rid of bad teachers. I have heard that the cost of adjuticating the case of a bad teacher can go to as high as 250,000 dollars in lawyers fees as the district goes up against the union. The movie "Waiting for Superman," looks at the problems in education, and though I haven't seen it myself, I have heard good things about the movie. It was made by the guy who made Al Gore's global warming hoax movie.

Here is an article on firing bad teachers:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19990523&slug=badd23

from the article:

1. It's not impossible to get rid of a bad teacher. But layers of regulations make it difficult and rare.
When people claim it's impossible to remove a bad teacher, they're thinking about a case such as Tom Colello's.
Colello was flagged as a poor teacher early in his 26-year career. Four years running, he received unsatisfactory evaluations and once allegedly threw a student against a locker.
The Tukwila School District fired him twice, only to have him reinstated by hearing officers. It cost the district more than $250,000, eight years and multiple trips to court before Colello resigned in 1995.
While his case represents the extreme, the norm is bad enough.
It takes an average of two years to remove a tenured teacher from the classroom, from the first conversation with a principal about improving performance to the decision to not renew the contract.
The principal is likely to spend at least a half-day per week on the task, a process so intensive, most say they can only handle one weak teacher at a time.
Attorneys recommend districts earmark $20,000 to $50,000 for every teacher who challenges a firing. Add $30,000 to $40,000 for court appeals.

 

[Carol]

I actually find this to be a pretty alarming article in and of itself, but keep its limitations in mind. The number of teachers caught, 178, maybe a good chunk of the Atlanta school district's teacher population, but it is laughably small when talking on the scale of national education. The article indicates corruption in this specific school district; it isn't damning of public education writ large.

And I could easily turn this into evidence against conservative educational approaches as well. You think this kind of crap wouldn't happen in a privatized educational system? Where standardized testing is so powerfully favored? These actions were taken by teachers and school administrators wanting to keep their jobs and gain more funding; that would not change going from a public to a private system.

In my opinion, this story illustrates a major problem with standardized testing. When a lot rides on test results, there is a lot of pressure to make sure those answers are correct. If we chose alternative measures of success, the results of a single test score would not be so pivotal.

Thank you for sharing the article, but I think trying to use it for an attack against public schooling misses the mark.

The sucker punch is that the school's success gained national acclaim. For reasons that are complete <expletive deleted>.

But the real kick in the gut: its the families in the district that lose. Could something like this happen in a private school? Absolutely! But if this had happened at a private school, the outraged parents could vote with their feet. A family that has the means to send a child to a private school likely has the means to send their child to a different private school more to their liking. But for a family of a child in public school, their choices are homeschooling, or moving to another district...unless they are in a position to be writing checks with some zeros on the end.

There was similar outrage in recent years in Massachusetts. The city of Lawrence, MA (80,000 people) was so corrupt that the high school lost is accreditation for 8 years. We're required by law to send our kids to school, and we're required by law to send our kids to a school in the given district, and for 8 years, the residents of the 4th largest city in Mass. were required by law to send their kids to a school whose diploma would be worth less than a mail-order GED. Disgusting.

It may not be a good indictment about the public school system as a whole, but it certainly illustrates how when things go horribly wrong, there is so little recourse for the people hurt the most.

 

[WC_lun]

Billi, I actually agree with you on something, that private schools are better than public schools. However, I'm not sure it is a government vs private thing. Private schools have a lot more funding. This comes from the people who can pay the tuition for these schools. Better funding equals better teachers and better programs. The funding is based more upon the programs themselves than test scores and student count. Most people cannot afford private schools for thier children, so they are stuck with public schools. We can debate the positive and negatives of each type of school, but in the end, it does nothing for those too poor to send thier children to private schools. The best thing would be to figure out how to get better effeciency out of the money public schools get and perhaps increase funding to those same schools.

Cheating on a job in order to get more money for either the employer or employee is nothing new. It happens in all types of areas. Sure, point out the people who do this and get rid of them, but it shouldn't come as a suprise. These teachers didn't do this because they are teachers, they did t because they are human.

 

[Tez3]

You have just as much chance of private schools 'cheating' as what I'd call the 'government' schools ( public schools here are very private and very very expensive) to attract pupils, if companies run schools they want a profit, employing less good 'cheaper' teachers could help that profit. I don't think it's an absolute that one type of school is better than another.