Streetfighting vs Self-defense

[FearlessFreep]

Sometimes the subject comes up about what would work 'on the street' and I find myself asking "well, probably depends on your motivation and situation..."

By this I mean I'm wondering oif there are differnet kinds of street encounters and if they require a different response or mental attitude.

I think the idea of a 'street-fight', by which I mean two guys just going at each other with mutual intent to hurt/kill each other, is pretty rare (but I could be wrong). However, I also think that this is different than 'self-defense', by which I mean that the other person is an aggressor (robbery, misunderstanding, whatever) and your motivation is not to 'beat them up' but simply 'get home in one piece'

So, when we talk about 'on the street', what are we talking about? Beating the heck out of someone, or jus getting out alive? Are there other distinctions? Does that change what you do and how you approach the situation?

 

[Bigshadow]

Sometimes the subject comes up about what would work 'on the street'

Sometimes? Wow that is an underestimation.

 

[Rook]

I see Streetfighting as an umbrella term that includes self-defense outside the training hall in addition to other fighting like gang warfare, policework, street duels, assaulting people, defending other people from assualt, bouncing and so forth.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

It's going to have different connotations for just about everybody.

Jeff

 

[bydand]

I think another aspect of the question depends on where you are maturity wise as well. 20 or 25 years ago if I asked that question it very well could have meant going out on a Friday night and while not picking a fight, sure not trying to avoid one either, just to liven up a boring night. (Don't ask, just young and DUMB.) I also wasn't training in any MA back then also, so that would have changed my perspective. Now though, it is dealing with self-defense. I think as you get older, the drive to "protect your honor" is replaced with the knowledge that the most important part of "honor" is being able to look at yourself in the mirror every morning without regreting what you did the night before. I know that is true in my case.

 

[exile]

the most important part of "honor" is being able to look at yourself in the mirror every morning without regreting what you did the night before.

That is really well put, Bydand.

 

[matt.m]

I believe that the main difference between streetfighting and self defense are two totally scenerios all together. Here is why: To me a streetfight is two or more people getting together to rumble, brawl, or whatever you want to call it.

Self defense is what someone does to protect themselves or others from harm, danger, etc. that sort of thing.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

If i am defending myself on the street, my intent may well be to maim or kill as my attacker.

I think self defense is a sliding scale.....you cant apply the same logic to every encounter.......otherwise we'd only need to learn how to do one thing.

I may have to brawl with my attacker.......i may have to struggle.....I dont want to do those things, but I am prepared to.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Continuing on the earlier point about "honor":

It is amazing how much the concept of "honor" gets so many MAists( and for that matter normal folk too) in very serious trouble after the fact concerning self defense--when threatened, such individuals *agree* to single combat. Legally and morally, that's wrong. You can't call it "self defense" if you have AGREED to hurt someone. Yet this is more common than it needs to be "Oh yeah, wanna go?" "Let's Go!" "Oh yeah?" "YEAH!".


Not gonna look good to witnesses/cops/jurors, it ain't.

Last time Someone threatened me asking idf I wanted to fight and was trying to start trouble with me, I remembered who was around me and said simply,"Do I wanna fight? No, I'm not interested in that. But if you try to hurt me, I'll make you stop no matter what that takes. Your call".


He woofed some more because he couldn't be seen to "back down" and lose his "respect" or "street cred", but never DID go for it. (If he went for me, I pretty much already had him, since he , in the final analysis, chose NOT to make good his threat then it mattered not one whit to me what he said as I went back to work and continued with my life. Not long after he went to jail for a violence related charge Imagine , if you will, my shock and surprise...NOT).

 

[bydand]

Continuing on the earlier point about "honor":

It is amazing how much the concept of "honor" gets so many MAists( and for that matter normal folk too) in very serious trouble after the fact concerning self defense--when threatened, such individuals *agree* to single combat. Legally and morally, that's wrong. You can't call it "self defense" if you have AGREED to hurt someone. Yet this is more common than it needs to be "Oh yeah, wanna go?" "Let's Go!" "Oh yeah?" "YEAH!".

That is not what I meant with my post at all. After reading it again I can see where that might be infered, but let me clarify here. What I meant was that the more mature one gets, the less that aspect is going to present its self. Also I do not mean mature as a measure of years only. I agree totally with what you say and that is what I intended, the whole concept of fighting for your honor is just crazy. In the morning some drunks ramblings about your heritage is quite comical really, that is the point I was trying to make.

 

[zDom]

Having been a victim of far too many assaults in the past, there is still part of me that wouldn't mind bringing down the thunder on someone who is out to beat up on somebody.

My response, on one occassion, was something like,

"I don't want to fight, but if you swing I WILL hurt you."

On one particular occassion I was happened to be in a foul mood and was hoping, at the time, they WOULD.

Turns out, someone I had helped test to black belt was there and told them (there were three of them),

"Dude -- that guy taught ME: if you think I'M bad, you definately DON'T want to mess with HIM! He WILL hurt you."

In retrospect, I'm glad it did NOT go down that way as I surely would have regretted hurting those guys, even if they did "deserve it" somewhat.

Nowadays, in light of that incident, I stay home if I'm in a foul mood

 

[exile]

That is not what I meant with my post at all. After reading it again I can see where that might be infered, but let me clarify here. What I meant was that the more mature one gets, the less that aspect is going to present its self. Also I do not mean mature as a measure of years only. I agree totally with what you say and that is what I intended, the whole concept of fighting for your honor is just crazy.

Yes, you guys are making different, complementary points, and I think that both of them are right on target.

In the morning some drunks ramblings about your heritage is quite comical really, that is the point I was trying to make.

It's weird, that, isn't it---why should it look so idiotically ludicrous in the morning when it seemed such a big angry wanna-choke-the-life-outta-them deal the night before? That's even if you yourself hadn't had much alcohol---something about morning light makes it all look so damned silly.

 

[Drac]

I think as you get older, the drive to "protect your honor" is replaced with the knowledge that the most important part of "honor" is being able to look at yourself in the mirror every morning without regreting what you did the night before. I know that is true in my case.

Yes, with age come wisdom..Providing that you have learned from your earlier mistakes...Good post bydand..

 

[Ybot]

Sometimes the subject comes up about what would work 'on the street' and I find myself asking "well, probably depends on your motivation and situation..."

By this I mean I'm wondering oif there are differnet kinds of street encounters and if they require a different response or mental attitude.

I think the idea of a 'street-fight', by which I mean two guys just going at each other with mutual intent to hurt/kill each other, is pretty rare (but I could be wrong). However, I also think that this is different than 'self-defense', by which I mean that the other person is an aggressor (robbery, misunderstanding, whatever) and your motivation is not to 'beat them up' but simply 'get home in one piece'

So, when we talk about 'on the street', what are we talking about? Beating the heck out of someone, or jus getting out alive? Are there other distinctions? Does that change what you do and how you approach the situation?

I have to say that what I consider a street fight in my personal experience is far more common than what I would consider a self defence situation.

People get in fights at bars and clubs all the time. Not self defence in my oppinion. People get in fights on the basketball courts. Not self defence in my oppinion. etc.

I have personally witnessed these kinds of situations on numerous occasions, and have heard first hand accounts of these even more often.

Some one pisses some one off in traffic, they get out at a light and try to pull the guy from his car. This is a self defence situation. Someone runs up to your car at a stop sign or light, and trys to get in. Self defence. Some one is waiting at a light rail station and is attacked by a group of guys for his wallet and valuables. Self defence. A woman is sextually assalted. Self defence.

These are Self defence situations I was either involved with, or have first hand account of. These situations I have come across few and far between, and only one is my own (someone trying to get into my car at a light), and was easily countered (I locked the doors, and drove aways as soon as I could).

Anyway, it's just my personal experience that "street fights" are more common.

Anyway, in the event of a self defence situation, my goal is not just to get out alive, but to do what ever I have to to get out with as little damage as possible. The guy I knew who was jumped at the light rail train station got out alive without defending himself. He got beat badly and his stuff taken.

 

[hongkongfooey]

The vast majority of "street fights" are ego driven. The vast majority of self defense actions are the response to criminal activity.

 

[exile]

The vast majority of "street fights" are ego driven. The vast majority of self defense actions are the response to criminal activity.

That's it in a nutshell---great point, HKph.

 

[zDom]

That's it in a nutshell---great point, HKph.

I agree. Well said.

 

[exile]

Having been a victim of far too many assaults in the past, there is still part of me that wouldn't mind bringing down the thunder on someone who is out to beat up on somebody.

My response, on one occassion, was something like,

"I don't want to fight, but if you swing I WILL hurt you."

zDom---it's weird, because at least once I have used almost exactly that line---it's been a (great) while, it may well have been that very same line---and the effect was probably the same as with you: they stopped---because it was true, and they knew it. Sometimes, when you're in a certain frame of mind, you really do manage to convey to people that they are going to regret starting up with you and they had better back off, fast.

On one particular occassion I was happened to be in a foul mood and was hoping, at the time, they WOULD.

And that's happened to me too---probably to a lot of us. In a sense, it's like you're thinking, you are such a jerk that it's justifiable for me to take out on you all my anger for the stupid, petty, pinheaded things that I've ever had to deal with. Go ahead, make my day.

Turns out, someone I had helped test to black belt was there and told them (there were three of them),

"Dude -- that guy taught ME: if you think I'M bad, you definately DON'T want to mess with HIM! He WILL hurt you."

Someone always has to be the killjoy, eh? :wink1:

In retrospect, I'm glad it did NOT go down that way as I surely would have regretted hurting those guys, even if they did "deserve it" somewhat.

Yup---it's the truth, especially in these litigous days, when burglars injured during B&E thefts because they slipped on the stairs can sue people whose house they broke into, with a fair chance of winning. On the external side, the fact that there were three of them and only one of you would have been offset by the fact that you were known to be an MA expert---a good lawyer would have been able to find this out in an afternoon. And on the internal side, you probably would have regretted hurting any of them---the fact that they were being jerks on that occasion didn't necessariy mean they deserved severe physical damage.

Nowadays, in light of that incident, I stay home if I'm in a foul mood

Yeah... the problem is, sometimes you're fine at the beginning of the evening and you only get into a foul mood as a result of the obnoxioius behavior you encounter.

But on the whole, we probably find it easier to live with ourselves by couting to ten, or leaving and finding a bar which isn't full of trolls...

 

[MJS]

Sometimes the subject comes up about what would work 'on the street' and I find myself asking "well, probably depends on your motivation and situation..."

By this I mean I'm wondering oif there are differnet kinds of street encounters and if they require a different response or mental attitude.

I think the idea of a 'street-fight', by which I mean two guys just going at each other with mutual intent to hurt/kill each other, is pretty rare (but I could be wrong). However, I also think that this is different than 'self-defense', by which I mean that the other person is an aggressor (robbery, misunderstanding, whatever) and your motivation is not to 'beat them up' but simply 'get home in one piece'

So, when we talk about 'on the street', what are we talking about? Beating the heck out of someone, or jus getting out alive? Are there other distinctions? Does that change what you do and how you approach the situation?

IMO, a street fight is often involving a large group. This can be similar to a gang fight. The term 'on the street' is anything that happens outside of the ring, dojo, etc. Depending on the situation, our reaction should vary from case to case.

Mike

 

[Adept]

I see Streetfighting as an umbrella term that includes self-defense outside the training hall in addition to other fighting like gang warfare, policework, street duels, assaulting people, defending other people from assualt, bouncing and so forth.

Ditto this.