Stop this monster with gun control...

billc

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Well, some info. on the monster at Sandy Hook is coming out...he planned it for years...and looked for ways to kill a lot of people...so all the gun control in the world would not have stopped him...

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/03/19/Law-Enforcement-Official-Adam-Lanza-Planned-His-Shooting-Spree-For-Years

Connecticut Police reveal the discovery of special spreadsheet that suggests **** ***** spent years preparing for the heinous crime he committed on Dec. 14, 2012.


According to a report, investigators working the ***** case discovered a "7 foot long, 4 foot wide spreadsheet with names, body counts and weapons from previous mass murders and even attempted killings."

Police say the work that went into the spreadsheet was as obsessive as it was extensive, and that it shows ***** spent his time thinking about ways people had been killed and could be killed, given a soft target where the killer had time to do as he pleased.

An anonymous law enforcement official said the more investigators looked at the spreadsheet, the more they saw that it was actually a score sheet in a game ***** planned to win. To that end, they believe "he picked an elementary school [for his crime] because he believed it was a point of least resistance."

Coupled with the spreadsheet, investigators found photos of ***** from two years ago, strapped with weapons and striking death poses. In one photo, he held a gun to his own head. Said the law enforcement official: "You have to understand..he had this laid out for years before."



Hmmmm...

"he picked an elementary school [for his crime] because he believed it was a point of least resistance."

Why would he think that an elementary school would be a point of least resistance...could it be because he knew it was a "GUN FREE," zone, and that he would be the only individual in that building with a gun...until the guys with guns arrived (police) by which time he would have been free to kill at his leisure...

Soooo...

***** spent his time thinking about ways people had been killed and could be killed, given a soft target where the killer had time to do as he pleased.

Again, tell me how a monster this committed to killing defenseless children would have been stopped by an "assault" weapon ban or a 7 round magazine capacity limit...
 

MJS

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If Lanza had used a machete, would there be a call for a ban on any and all bladed weapons with a blade longer than X? Oh I'm sure...lol. Like I said in the other thread...this kid had mental health issues, and his parents and anyone directly involved with him, failed at getting him the help or doing something with him, other than letting him live like a hermit in his mothers basement, so he can play games all day and plot out a mass murder.
 

arnisador

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If he had used a machete, would he have been able to stab a teacher through a closed door? He shot one that way.
 
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billc

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He would have planned accordingly...he planned this attack for years in advance. Had that teacher had a gun...she could have shot him through the door, and saved a lot of lives...but she couldn't because she was working in a gun grabber mandated "Gun Free" zone that only allowed monsters to have guns...and left the innocent helpless to stop them...
 

Steve

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Blaming mental illness entirely also misses the point. As I said in another thread, millions of people in this country suffer from some manner of mental illness and almost none of them commit murder.

Do you not see that the exact same logic you are using to suggest that easy access to a firearm wasn't to blame could literally be used to excuse every thing else, too?

It's a bs argument and I'm getting a little tired of seeing it.

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billc

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Yes. When I was in high school they blamed dungeons and dragons for killers, and even made a t.v. movie about the obsession with the game. A mentally ill person will latch on something for whatever reason...

The gun didn't possess his body and force him to kill, the video game did not possess his body and force him to go to that school.

Millions of other people who own guns didn't march into schools and start killing children...one guy with a mental illness so severe it was noticed by many people did commit this atrocity. The guy in Colorado was also dangerously mentally ill to the point that students in his college class joked that he would one day be in the news for mass murder, and his teacher in his class told colleagues that he was afraid that when he turned to face the chalk board this guy would pull out a gun and shoot him....

Sooo...yes, the common factor in all of these incidents is mental illness that went ignored...because no one thought that the guy showing the bizarre behavior would go to a school or a movie theater and kill innocent men, women and children...

Remember all the millions of people who didn't kill innocent people...who also had easy access to guns who didn't kill...hmmmm...it seems easy access to guns doesn't explain the killing...

millions of people in this country suffer from some manner of mental illness

Some manner of mental illness isn't the problem...the particular form of mental illness that these guys have is the issue because it caused these particular guys to go into "Gun Free" zones, which we now know was why Sandy Hook was chosen, and kill. It is the same type of mental illness that the homeless person in New York had that caused him/her to push that person in front of the oncoming train.

What about "Gun Free" zones...that is another common factor with these guys...and yet no one is addressing that issue on the gun grabber side...other than to create more of them...
 

arnisador

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Sooo...yes, the common factor in all of these incidents is mental illness that went ignored...

...together with guns, which facilitate killing many people quickly, easily, and with little planning needed (though many did plan).
 

Drasken

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The fact is that if he planned this out for years, then the fault also is put in a large amount on his parents. Are you telling me they didn't notice anything wrong? It isn't all the parent's fault since each person is responsible for their own actions.
However, if he planned it for that long, I guarantee he could have got his hands on guns even if there was a full gun ban in effect. I'm sorry, but it's true.
 
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billc

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Here is a 60 minutes piece on the killers and suicides created by dungeon and dragons...

http://videosift.com/video/Dungeons-Dragons-causes-kids-to-commit-suicide-murder

If he knew drug users he had a pathway to illegal guns...but if the teacher or principal or a parent of a child at Sandy Hook had a legal right to carry a pistol for self-defense they would still have been victims because do gooders have created "Gun Free" zones which these guys intentionally pick to do their killing...as was the case in Colorado and Sandy Hook in particular...

Another way, he could have followed people home from gun stores, or broken into a gun store, or killed a police officer...the way to get guns is only limited by time and imagination...

I think the focus on the gun is one of the problems in the past. Parents had no idea what could happen with their kids who were obviously showing signs of odd, or what we now know is dangerous, behavior...now parents might be able to evaluate their situations better, as will trained professionals in schools, and now they might actually speak out and take action...rather than wait and ignore the behavior...that will reduce these killings...
 
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MJS

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If he had used a machete, would he have been able to stab a teacher through a closed door? He shot one that way.

Umm....no, probably not, but that wasn't my point. My point was, all the knee jerk reactions to the guns, when in reality, the most important thing was clearly overlooked...his mental state!

Oh, as for the machete...well, had he used one, yes, I'm sure all the knee jerkers of the world would've been calling for a ban on long bladed weapons.

I'm sorry, but the most important thing isn't being looked at by the decision makers, and that is mental health. Hey, I'm not down playing Sandy Hook. However, the only difference here, is that numerous, young kids were killed. Where're all the marches and rallies when young punks are running around robbing people on the street with guns, holding up stores, etc?
 

MJS

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Blaming mental illness entirely also misses the point. As I said in another thread, millions of people in this country suffer from some manner of mental illness and almost none of them commit murder.

Do you not see that the exact same logic you are using to suggest that easy access to a firearm wasn't to blame could literally be used to excuse every thing else, too?

It's a bs argument and I'm getting a little tired of seeing it.

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I'm not saying it was all mental illness, but that does play a part. As I said, gun violence is nothing new. Hell, how many times have you seen or heard about a shooting, all these people go out and march and pray and hold one vigil after the next, and then it all fades away. Nothing ever comes of it.
 

MJS

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The fact is that if he planned this out for years, then the fault also is put in a large amount on his parents. Are you telling me they didn't notice anything wrong? It isn't all the parent's fault since each person is responsible for their own actions.
However, if he planned it for that long, I guarantee he could have got his hands on guns even if there was a full gun ban in effect. I'm sorry, but it's true.

Thank you! Well said!! Lanza lived with his mother, who I believe was divorced. IIRC, I read an article which talked about her knowing all about her sons mental health issues. I wonder....did she do anything about it? Funny how that little bit of info gets swept under the rug, in place of the other stuff. His mother had numerous guns in her home. Another question that seems to have been swept under the rug, which I feel is very important, is: where and how did his mother keep the guns? Were they in a locked case? Open for her son to access?
 

Drasken

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Oh and while we're talking about facts of this case, how about the BIG one that media was reporting over and over and the medical examiner reported this was done with an assault rifle. It was then finally released that this was all BS, that the rifle was locked in the trunk of the car and he did this with 2 pistols?
There is so much wrong with this case. It should have been prevented. You know why it wasn't? Apathy. Mom could have stopped it, at least a couple of armed guards could have stopped it. An armed teacher could have stopped it.
When illegal guns would be available on the street however, gun bans would do nothing. I would possibly concede the point if it was all spontaneous, but that is obviously not the case.
 
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billc

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Okay, from a post by MJS on another thread...

http://news.msn.com/us/ohio-teen-gets-life-for-killing-3-wears-killer-shirt-to-sentencing?ocid=ansnews11

Prosecutors say Lane took a .22-caliber pistol and a knife to the school and fired 10 shots at a group of students in the cafeteria. Daniel Parmertor and Demetrius Hewlin, both 16, and Russell King Jr., 17, were killed.

Lane was at Chardon waiting for a bus to the alternative school he attended, for students who haven't done well in traditional settings.



We have all of the big ones for a multiple victim, public shooting...

--the boy was having issues as shown by his going to an alternative school

--the school was a "Gun Free/ hunting zone" for the dangerously mentally ill

--He didn't use an "assault" rifle, but he did use the least threatening of all the guns and one on the lowest rung of the gun grabber list...a .22 pistol...

Tell me again how you stop this monster with gun control...
 

arnisador

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting#The_weapon
Tell me again how you stop this monster with gun control...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting#The_weapon


After Lane's arrest, law enforcement determined that the gun used in the shooting was purchased legally. Authorities said that he had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle.

The gun was purchased legally. Why would gun control measures not work on legal purchases? Once again--as happens time and time again--a legally purchased gun was taken by someone other than its owner. This is why I want stronger safe storage requirements.
 
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billc

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Well the real solution is to remind people that it is against the law to steal the property of other people.

Again, outside of home inspections by law enforcement, how do you enforce this?

As far as I am concerned if you lock your home, you have taken a basic measure of precaution for your firearms. If you decide to increase that level, I support your decision. Safe's seem good, but if you live in an apartment? The best place for your pistol is on your hip, or near you when you sleep, that is the best way to ensure it isn't stolen. If you have more than one, you might want to get some sort of safe or pay for offsite storage if you live in an apartment. Other than that, locking your home should be considered safe storage...anything else is better, but up to you.
 

Big Don

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[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting#The_weapon"]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chardon_High_School_shooting#The_weapon



After Lane's arrest, law enforcement determined that the gun used in the shooting was purchased legally. Authorities said that he had stolen the .22-caliber handgun from his uncle.
The gun was purchased legally. Why would gun control measures not work on legal purchases? Once again--as happens time and time again--a legally purchased gun was
STOLEN,WHICH IS ALREADY AND HAS BEEN FOR MOST OF RECORDED HISTORY, ILLEGAL.
by someone other than its owner. This is why I want stronger safe storage requirements.
How does penalizing the law abiding do anything? Are you going to buy me a gun safe?
41eA3Kk6IVL._SY300_.jpg


SentrySafe G1459E 14-Gun Electronic Lock Safe, Black Powder Coat



Price:$609.99
check-prime-45x13._V192552839_.gif



Because, I don't have $600 to spend on something I neither want nor need, but, if you insist, send the money to Bob Hubbard, he'll get it to me.
If not, kindly SHUT UP and mind your own business. As long as I do not violate the law, where and how I choose to store my weapons, my clothing or my god damn toilet paper is NONE of your damn business! Please read the quote in my signature, it is C.S. Lewis if you want to look up the whole thing. If you aren't trying to be EXACTLY the tyrant he describes...
 

jezr74

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Well, some info. on the monster at Sandy Hook is coming out...he planned it for years...and looked for ways to kill a lot of people...so all the gun control in the world would not have stopped him...

If he had no access to guns. That would have worked. If you can jump to conclusions I can equally. :D

When I was in high school they blamed dungeons and dragons for killers, and even made a t.v. movie about the obsession with the game. A mentally ill person will latch on something for whatever reason...

You nailed it in the last sentence, some people with a certain disposition for violence may be attracted to these type of activities, D&D, Black Ops, Guns, Chewing Gum. I don't believe there is any conclusive evidence that these activities actually cause people to "go mental". The D&D fad of complaints was generally fueled by religious agenda's.

They have replaced D&D with Black Ops and GTA these days. The people with "anti-social" behaviour already, and likely drawn to these items, but the have the thought process already.
 
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billc

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Do you know anyone who smokes pot or uses any other kind of illegal drugs? If you do, you have a way of getting an illegal gun, so anyone, at any time will have access to guns...if they don't care about breaking the law, or getting caught...and if someone is going to kill children, breaking the law and getting caught aren't really big on their list of concerns...

If you live in a small apartment...where would you put that safe anyway? The best place for your pistol is on your hip.
 
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