Stick attack - take it on the bone or the meat?

[jasonbrinn]

Here is a scenario that I am curious to get opinions on;

You are being attacked by someone with a stick (or stick like weapon - say tire iron) and there is NO way to avoid getting hit by it. You are going to block the attack with some part of your arm but which part, the inside of the arm (meaty part) or the outside of the arm (boney part)?....and why?


Thank you,


Jason Brinn

 

[WC_lun]

Anatomy has your answer. Human beings are built how they are for a reason. The outside of the arm lacks vital blood vessals and nerves. That doesn't mean the damage cannot be severe, but it is easier to cause severe damage on the inside of the arm...as well as the interior of the legs. Trained martial artist should already know this though, so probably not saying anything not already known.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Trained people are only as good as what they are trained with or from whom they are trained.

Thanks for the response.

What you mention is, of course, great advice that is hard to argue when speaking of bladed weapon attacks, however, there could be some valid reasons to "flip the script" for non-bladed weapons. Taking a strong stick attack to a boney area more than likely would result in a fracture or outright break where taking the same attack on the inside of the arm may result in numbness and severe bruising but not much more.

I am sure there are people on this forum experienced in "real life" situations that could speak to a reality of combat unconventionally suited more properly than conventional classroom concepts. At least I am hoping.


Jason Brinn

 

[harlan]

No block. Deflect if can. Even a little makes a difference.
Ditto on what WC_Lun said...

Here is a scenario that I am curious to get opinions on;

You are being attacked by someone with a stick (or stick like weapon - say tire iron) and there is NO way to avoid getting hit by it. You are going to block the attack with some part of your arm but which part, the inside of the arm (meaty part) or the outside of the arm (boney part)?....and why?


Thank you,


Jason Brinn

 

[lklawson]

Attempting to block a tire iron is going to bork the arm up no matter what. There's not enough muscle to "cushion" a powerful iron bar striking and prevent breaking the arm. There's not enough bone to prevent a powerful iron bar striking through, breaking the bones, and damaging the muscle.

Blocking a heavy steel bludgeon completely frags the arm. There is no "better" or "worse." This is why a iron bar was a simple "go to" weapon in every culture that invented iron-working from Chinese to European. As well to ask which part of the arm, inside or out, you want to "block" a katana strike with. It's all gonna suck.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thanks harlan, however, in this scenario you have to block with your arm. By saying ditto to WC_Lun I am assuming you are saying that you are voting for the outside of the arm (the boney part).

Jason Brinn

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thanks for the response Kirk.

What about a heavy wooden object, does this change your response?

Jason Brinn

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Im going to assume that the strike would go to my neck/head if i dont block. In that case, even if it is a tire iron, id still block with my arm, then, if it doesnt just break through my arm and land on my head/neck anyway and I can stand the pain, run as fast as I can. So, even with the tire iron, its still a viable idea. As for an answer, I would block with the outside of my arm, for the same reasons as listed above.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thanks kempodisciple for the response.

So its seems 3 votes so far for the outside (boney) part for the block.

Jason Brinn

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So its seems 3 votes so far for the outside (boney) part for the block.

Just out of curiosity, have you heard outside of this forum people advocating for the inside of the arm to block it? if so, what reasoning do they use?

 

[jasonbrinn]

I have not heard anyone yet advocating using the inside of the arm for such attacks, at least not yet. I am putting the question up to some other forums where these types of attacks are discussed a little more and I am waiting to hear back and then will relate any additional information here.

I have always been taught the same things posted so far as to using the outside of the arm myself. However, during a research training session I started thinking that maybe the inside would be better for such specific attacks due to the fact of the density of the bone versus the muscle. So here I am curious to see what others have found. Unless someone with explicit knowledge comes forth to the contrary I plan to test the idea out.

Either way, I am not so sure yet that even if the inside is better that I would necessarily teach it. The reason is I know that the outside is best for bladed weapons and my current belief is to train as simple as possible always assuming the worst. So to me it might be better to take the worse option against the stick just for mastering the parts that save against the blade.

I am still really curious though.

thanks again,


Jason Brinn

 

[Bobby135]

The way I would view this is close the gap first, as much as possible. Then I would vote for taking it on the outside of the arm (boney part as you describe it). The most important thing is closing the gap and entering on the individual. The last thing I want is to be hit with anything coming full speed at it's end with the most force. I have trained my forearms to take a bit of a beating, so that is my preference.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thanks Bobby135 for the response.

Definitely. My standard response is to step back pulling the glock but this is a hypothetical where you have done all you can and now are forced to directly block the weapon by taking the force of the blunt object on your arm.

So far that is 4 for 4 votes in favor of the outside (boney) part of the arm. Looks like a clean sweep here maybe.

Jason Brinn

 

[Dirty Dog]

It would depend on the exact circumstances. I'd be going for a deflection rather than a block, and even if I had to block it square, I'd be doing my best to move the arm with the strike to absorb the impact rather than oppose it. Block as far from your body as possible, and as low down on the weapon as possible, and let the weapon push your arm back towards your body. I don't think it's going to make a ton of difference which side of the arm is used.

 

[arnisador]

Must block? That sucks, but as much muscle as possible would be my move--while fully expecting that with a heavy weapon it wouldn't make difference. If I have a heavy stick in my hand (as I often do), I aim for bone not muscle. If I'm the victim, I'd want it the other way around.

 

[Cyriacus]

Neither. Get close and go for their shoulder. Just let it powerlessly hit your arm as you do so.

 

[seasoned]

Two bone theory, taught years ago. With your arm hanging down at your side naturally, inside and outside is determined because the soft part will automatically point in.
As your arm travels up to except the strike, ideally the two bones of the outside of the forearm will make contact first with your arm at a 45 degree angle pointing up, as the arm completes the block "rising block" by twisting and transferring from 2 bones to one bone.

The above is a classic upper block taught in most karate schools anywhere.

 

[seasoned]

Two bone theory, taught years ago. With your arm hanging down at your side naturally, inside and outside is determined because the soft part will automatically point in.
As your arm travels up to except the strike, ideally the two bones of the outside of the forearm will make contact first with your arm at a 45 degree angle pointing up, as the arm completes the block "rising block" by twisting and transferring from 2 bones to one bone.

The above is a classic upper block taught in most karate schools anywhere.

Now with this said, outside of the attack is always preferred which will create more of a "deflection" if your arm is placed properly as the weapon makes contact.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thank you Dirty Dog for your response!

Looks like 5 votes out of 5 for the bone.


Jason Brinn

 

[jasonbrinn]

Thank you arnisador for your response!

If you don't mind could you please elaborate. If I understand you clearly it seems you are casting our first vote for taking the hit on the muscle and not the bone...? If this is so can you explain why and any training or experience as to how you came to this idea?


Jason Brinn