Starting a dojo
- Thread starter Monkey Turned Wolf
- Start date
hoshin1600
Senior Master
I'm going to put forth some advise that I have yet to ever hear when this topic comes up.
Does your significant other, share your enthusiasm for the project and will they be able to maintain their own commitment to your success?
This one nugget has gone sideways for me a few times, one ended the relationship and cost me about half my belongings and ultimately closed the dojo.
Business generally start within two general buckets. One being small incremental pull your self up by your boot straps type with little to no capital most often started by people with big ideas and lots of hope but little experience in buisiness. The other bucket is the more professional buisiness route with ample capital with reserves and support funds for the owner to live on, a solid business plan that denotes timeliness with projected earnings and business partnerships to help as buisiness is a team sport.
Martial art schools most often fall under category one, the self starter.
Unless your single with no commitments problems will arise in a relationship when starting.
>Your time away from your partner can cause isolation and resentment.
>Small ventures do not bring sufficient revenue. You could make more money getting a part time job at McDonald's. How long is your partner willing to go without you making a regular income?
>How risk adverse is your partner? Having your own buisiness opens you up to a lot of liability in many different ways.
> Does your partner understand the commitment level needed ? Classes need to be continuous and steady same time everytime without fail. You can't miss or be late because your partner feels you can take the kids or the dog with you and stop by the cleaners to drop of laundry for her..afterall she is working and your not, also don't forget next week is her cousin Jennifer's graduation party. You can skip classes because it's not like you have a real job.
These are real issues and a misalignment between relationship partners is a major contributor to the failure of many businesses and relationships.
Part of a small buisness plan should include how you going to communicate and navigate your relationship.
I will also add from experience that just because she says it's a great idea go for it in the beginning, doesn't mean squat. These things need to be negotiated along the way.
Does your significant other, share your enthusiasm for the project and will they be able to maintain their own commitment to your success?
This one nugget has gone sideways for me a few times, one ended the relationship and cost me about half my belongings and ultimately closed the dojo.
Business generally start within two general buckets. One being small incremental pull your self up by your boot straps type with little to no capital most often started by people with big ideas and lots of hope but little experience in buisiness. The other bucket is the more professional buisiness route with ample capital with reserves and support funds for the owner to live on, a solid business plan that denotes timeliness with projected earnings and business partnerships to help as buisiness is a team sport.
Martial art schools most often fall under category one, the self starter.
Unless your single with no commitments problems will arise in a relationship when starting.
>Your time away from your partner can cause isolation and resentment.
>Small ventures do not bring sufficient revenue. You could make more money getting a part time job at McDonald's. How long is your partner willing to go without you making a regular income?
>How risk adverse is your partner? Having your own buisiness opens you up to a lot of liability in many different ways.
> Does your partner understand the commitment level needed ? Classes need to be continuous and steady same time everytime without fail. You can't miss or be late because your partner feels you can take the kids or the dog with you and stop by the cleaners to drop of laundry for her..afterall she is working and your not, also don't forget next week is her cousin Jennifer's graduation party. You can skip classes because it's not like you have a real job.
These are real issues and a misalignment between relationship partners is a major contributor to the failure of many businesses and relationships.
Part of a small buisness plan should include how you going to communicate and navigate your relationship.
I will also add from experience that just because she says it's a great idea go for it in the beginning, doesn't mean squat. These things need to be negotiated along the way.
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Excellent advice. I'd even add in the rest of the family -- kids and beyond. And note that it applies to any small business... If you start a small business, like a commercial training hall, it will become a family affair. You will bring work home... and you willhave to deal with work stuff on birthdays or holidays or other things.
isshinryuronin
Senior Master
An excellent point. Couples can do their own thing, but when one's activities affect the other's, a sit-down is called for. I don't think teaching MA is that time consuming, but if done in addition to a regular job the hours can add up and leave your partner handling a lot (sometimes too much) on their own. I made that mistake when I started my own small business, partially abandoning my family for my business.
Years later with another job (and wife) married applicants, after testing and two initial interviews, had to be interviewed with spouse. The job was very demanding requiring multiple skill sets and time investment, hours spanning morning, noon and night, including weekends, 12-hour days not uncommon. The management was well aware of the stresses involved and sought to ensure support from one's spouse. My wife was/is a gem, and I had learned to be always considerate of my partner, so my years there were very rewarding, and my marriage endured.
Lesson learned - balance and consideration is key in all things.
Not accurate. Not all Martial Art teachers want to have that many people where the are making $20K a month. Not all your best students are going to be the ones who can pay the most. I manages a successful school at $80 per students and often beat more expensive schools.
The only way I would try to maximize profit is if I needed the school to earn a living.
If your goal is to make money, which he stated it is, you need revenue. If you don’t want to make money that’s great, but what can be good advice for someone not looking to make money is often very bad advice for someone that needs to make a living from their school.
And really, less then 20k gross is hard to make a living off
And really, less then 20k gross is hard to make a living off
opr1945
Black Belt
This is obviously the answer to the original question.
The Ultimate High Level Business, Management, and Marketing Manual for Professional Martial Arts School Owners. Applies Equally to MMA, BJJ, Krav Maga, Kick Boxing, and Traditional Schools.
The Ultimate High Level Business, Management, and Marketing Manual for Professional Martial Arts School Owners. Applies Equally to MMA, BJJ, Krav Maga, Kick Boxing, and Traditional Schools.
I’d not recommend Stephen Oliver to anyone.
HighKick
Master Black Belt
In a perfect, 'white-wall' business model, you are correct. But reality has proven time and time again that models seldom manifest in the real working world. This is especially true in service-based industries. For a number of reasons, the martial arts industry further acerbates the 'perfect' business model.
What I have found to be consistent in my 39-years as a two school MA's business owner who also has several other successful businesses and has been the principal in nine (9) MA's school startups is the vast majority of schools in the US are middle of the road between the no/low profit model and a maximum profit model. There are a LOT of schools out there operated by extremely passionate people who work a full-time job and teach martials as a 'side-gig' that make a modest profit. This has been consistently true throughout the 45-years I have been in the MA's.
In a nutshell, 20k gross could mean little to nothing in one model and a Great month in another. For all we know that month lost money. In other words, it is a wildly inaccurate statement.
OP
OP
For those wondering, I just finished today talks with a city community center that was looking for classes. Starting in July, I will be teaching 2 days per week - a kids class followed by an adults class each day.
The way we are doing it, I will be considered a city employee while hosting there, rather than an independent contractor or just renting the space, which means A) that I will be undergoing a background check and drug screening (neither of which are an issue for me), B) any equipment that I decide I need they can requisition for me for the space (students will still have to purchase their own gis, gloves, etc. and that will be direct from me to them), and C) I will be covered under the city's existing liability insurance rather than needing my own (I will still be having everyone sign a liability waiver that I will go over with the program coordinator before classes start.
As an employee, I was given two options for payment, that I'm deciding between (and can change between later), but am most likely going with option 2.
1) get paid as an hourly employee, making the rate appropriate for a rec center instructor (they didn't give me an exact figure but sounds like it'll be 15-20/hour), or
2) get paid per student that attends. I choose the price, and they pay the center, who then takes their cut (35%) and gives me the rest. So if I decide it's $15 per session for instance, they'd get roughly $5 per student and I would get $10. That would be in lieu of any rent that I'd otherwise be paying.
Biggest drawback is that the room they are offering me is set for a max capacity of 40, but I'm not sure any more than 10 would comfortably fit in there. But they do have a bigger room if I show that I need it (and I believe different pricing negotiations for that room). If it eventually gets big enough then I can think about leaving the space and finding my own dojo/splitting with someone else to get a big space, offer additional classes/get assistant instructors/etc.
To me, this method seems very low risk, and will help me get back into teaching and hammer out how I want my curriculum to work. And if for whatever reason it doesn't seem like it's working out, all I'm losing is time and effort.
The way we are doing it, I will be considered a city employee while hosting there, rather than an independent contractor or just renting the space, which means A) that I will be undergoing a background check and drug screening (neither of which are an issue for me), B) any equipment that I decide I need they can requisition for me for the space (students will still have to purchase their own gis, gloves, etc. and that will be direct from me to them), and C) I will be covered under the city's existing liability insurance rather than needing my own (I will still be having everyone sign a liability waiver that I will go over with the program coordinator before classes start.
As an employee, I was given two options for payment, that I'm deciding between (and can change between later), but am most likely going with option 2.
1) get paid as an hourly employee, making the rate appropriate for a rec center instructor (they didn't give me an exact figure but sounds like it'll be 15-20/hour), or
2) get paid per student that attends. I choose the price, and they pay the center, who then takes their cut (35%) and gives me the rest. So if I decide it's $15 per session for instance, they'd get roughly $5 per student and I would get $10. That would be in lieu of any rent that I'd otherwise be paying.
Biggest drawback is that the room they are offering me is set for a max capacity of 40, but I'm not sure any more than 10 would comfortably fit in there. But they do have a bigger room if I show that I need it (and I believe different pricing negotiations for that room). If it eventually gets big enough then I can think about leaving the space and finding my own dojo/splitting with someone else to get a big space, offer additional classes/get assistant instructors/etc.
To me, this method seems very low risk, and will help me get back into teaching and hammer out how I want my curriculum to work. And if for whatever reason it doesn't seem like it's working out, all I'm losing is time and effort.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Good opportunity. I tried to get a similar arrangement going but it never took off. Couldn’t get any interest built up. The community center already has a karate and a taiji class so it is entirely possible those classes are already meeting all the interest. But the center was willing to let me have a try.
OP
OP
I got lucky with this center. They had classes pre-covid, but the instructor didn't come back after covid, and they still haven't found anyone at this particular place to fill the hole. Other centers do, just not this particular one.
I'm still planning on doing my own marketing outside the center, which I should be able to afford now that I don't have to worry about renting a place, insurance, or equipment.
Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah, good opportunity. Part of my issue is that California is saturated with martial arts. I think it is extra difficult in many areas to get a program going. There are already many choices available.
OP
OP
That makes sense. Market dictates a lot of it
skribs
Grandmaster
If you have 2 students per class, it sounds like this would be more.
Could you set a monthly fee? I think that would be easier for most folks.
OP
OP
Yeah. And even if it wasn't, my goal is to get students. If I go into it with the mindset of I'm just teaching whomever appears and getting the same either way, I won't be motivated to get more students (not that money's my only goal. But the motivation helps).
My plan is to offer a monthly fee and session fee. Not 100% on the numbers yet, but currently leaning towards $15/session or $90/month. Cheaper than most others in the area but I'm fine with that.
Only thing that I'm not allowed to do is set discounts (ie: get one member of a family to sign off, second is half off; if you refer someone you get half off the next month), or waive the fee for anyone.
Congrats! Work with them to promote the class, and make plans to take advantage of any class promotion days or events they offer. Otherwise, they'll list it in the catalog, and that'll be about it. Also consider putting together a flier and maybe a demo-reel that you can include on their cable channel.
HighKick
Master Black Belt
Very smart way to go. Congratulations on the new venture and all the best for success!!!
OP
OP
My wife does freelance graphic design and promotional work for plays in the area, so she's going to give me the husband rate to help me get some fliers, put together a logo and shirt, and spread the word. By cable channel, do you mean the local news channel. or like a pay-for-cable thing? The first would be a very tough sell, the second I don't think they have.
And there's unfortunately no website they have where it'd be appropriate for them to list it. I'm expecting to have to do most of the marketing myself.
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