Stance Training

[Yeti]

I think most, if not all, of the traditional Chinese martial arts stress stance training for their beginning students. Horse stance, bow & arrow (front stance), cat stance, crane stance – they’re all practiced quite a bit. But what about stance training in TKD? Does anyone do it? In the schools that I’ve belonged to, this is something we’ve never done. We’re always shown the new stances at the appropriate level, but training these stances as a separate entity was never stressed in class and never mentioned as something that we as students should drill ourselves on at home. Is this typical? I for one DO train in my stances at home. I consistently train horse, front, back, cat and X-stance, both statically and dynamically. I find that it really helps me develop strength, balance and flexibility, but I think more importantly, it has trained me to stay relaxed even when under strain. I’d like to get some other’s points of view on stance training….what do you think?

 

[Gemini]

We don't train in stances by themselves, but we do stress the correct stances for the strikes/blocks they're supporting. We start class with punches from a horse stance. As much focus is put on the stanch as on the punches. We also stress them in forms. Since every level practices a form (poomse), again, not only is the strike/block practiced but the stance that it is based on.

So because every strike/block is thrown fom a stance, as much attention is paid to each.

 

[Xue Sheng]

We don't train in stances by themselves, but we do stress the correct stances for the strikes/blocks they're supporting. We start class with punches from a horse stance. As much focus is put on the stanch as on the punches. We also stress them in forms. Since every level practices a form (poomse), again, not only is the strike/block practiced but the stance that it is based on.

So because every strike/block is thrown fom a stance, as much attention is paid to each.

I do not know much of TDK today, but about 20 years ago we did do some stance training, mainly standing in Horse stance for an extended period of time. However there was much more of what Gemini is saying going on then training individual stances way back then.

 

[Last Fearner]

In my early training, we were always taught stance training both separate, and together with techniques. As I have always taught my students, not only from the first day they learn a stance, but throughout everyday of training, there should be special practice for checking, and refining their stances.

To this day, I practice my stances without any hand techniques in stationary postions, moving like basic floor exercises (gibon undong), or as self defense maneuvers. When practicing at home, I tell my students to run through each form the first time with just stances, and we do the same in the dojang. Stances are also scrutinized and corrected during other training with hand techniques by the instructor, as Gemini has mentioned.


CM D. J. Eisenhart

 

[Miles]

I look at stances a little differently. I see them as transitional rather than an end unto themselves. When doing poomsae, I think it is important to have good stances, but often your stance is how you got to some point rather than the end-point itself.

The horse stance training of long ago was a way to weed out students who were not motivated. I can remember doing middle punches in a horse stance for nearly an hour. It was more torture than educational.

Miles

 

[terryl965]

Yea we also di triple punches from horse stance you know low middle high just to see who would quit and who was going to stay.
Terry

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Yea we also di triple punches from horse stance you know low middle high just to see who would quit and who was going to stay.
Terry

That's what my instructors did. It separated the men from the boys, the girls from the women, to use an old expression. Plus the combination of a deep horse stance combined with punching drils was GREAT CONDITIONING. When I was in college, I worked deliveries of supplies (foods, condiments, etc) for Burger King. One cold winter day, some standing water had become black ice without my being aware of it. I started to slip and automatically centered myself into a solid TKD/Shotokan stance and regained my balance. Since there were many obstacles, falling techniques would NOT have prevented injury as they can on open ground.

 

[TigerWoman]

Yes, we do have the joys of stance training in our school of TKD. For the white belt level, they start out with just the long, front stance. I have been stance training white belts just this week before they start their forms. Enough for them at that point. At each belt level, new stances are learned then added on.

But then on occasion when the belt levels are green and up, one year of attendance about, that we practice stances. Does it help? For those that don't do their max effort, it is just easy exercise. If you don't practice stances correctly in regular form, say cheat and not go forward as much on the front stance, it doesn't help. I see black belts who never lost weight and still have difficulty with the the simple front stance. But it can be grueling for those who really try to go low, shoulder wide, long, weight on the front foot or back, and with feet placed correctly.

Some of the most difficult exercises, (after doing front stances) are going from low back stance to back stance, up and down the line a few times. Then after simply doing back stances, we add kicks from those low back stances. Those are real quad builders, if the student would try. It also helps with balance and the core. Stance training like everything else is an important component of training.

Hey, this is my 4000th post!!! Never thought I could talk this much, but Martialtalk is a good place to visit! TW

 

[wynnema]

the horse stance is good for learning the correct hip position for high side kick.

 

[Miles]

the horse stance is good for learning the correct hip position for high side kick.

It is also an awesome take-down technique.

Miles

 

[AceHBK]

In my school we work on them often and we even do one steps occasionaly in correct stances so we do things the proper way.
I sometimes teach the kids class and I now make sure to focus on that.
I focus on 3 things (aka PST)...
Posture
Stance
Technique

Without PST you wont achieve great success.

 

[tkd_jen]

I think it is important to have good stances, but often your stance is how you got to some point rather than the end-point itself.

I agree, it really makes you focus on each part individually, or the end result will not be what you wanted.

 

[Yeti]

Well it's really good to hear that a lot of us are drilling stances...at least I think so!

 

[Fluffy]

This is what I do; Tape a line on the floor, I actually do two. Put your hands on your hips or in a guarding position (whatever is comfortable) and walk the line (with various stances) Middle stance; both heals are on the tape, Back stance; your front foot is entirely on the tape the heal of your back foot is on the tape, Front stance; the tape should be able to cut you in 1/2 meaning your nose is directly over the tape while your feet are 1.5 width your shoulders.

Stance work is very important, that was a great question. Hope this helps.

 

[Miles]

This is what I do; Tape a line on the floor, I actually do two. Put your hands on your hips or in a guarding position (whatever is comfortable) and walk the line (with various stances) Middle stance; both heals are on the tape, Back stance; your front foot is entirely on the tape the heal of your back foot is on the tape, Front stance; the tape should be able to cut you in 1/2 meaning your nose is directly over the tape while your feet are 1.5 width your shoulders.

Stance work is very important, that was a great question. Hope this helps.

Fluffy, thanks for your input on stances. This shows one of the (albeit minor) differences between ITF and Kukkiwon methodologies.

At the Kukkiwon, we were told that our stances are dictated by the length of our steps, not our shoulders.

For example, one of the (unfortunately often disparaged) stances in the Taeguek series is the Walking stance (ap seogi). This is one single step and the feet are approximately two fists apart from back big toe to front foot's heel.

If you take that Walking stance and take 1/2 step forward, that is your Front stance (ap kubi). The additional 1/2 step requires you to bend your front knee so that it is above your front foot.

To get into a Sitting Stance (joo chum seogi), you assume the walking stance and pivot 45 degrees-the distance is only 1 step. This was the hardest change for me when I started training in Kukkiwon methodology from ITF.

A Back stance (dwi kubi) is also 1 step wide. However, unlike the description Fluffy provided, the heel of the back foot is not on the same plane as that of the front foot. If you brought your heels together, your front foot's heel would be on the vertical line with the back heel off the line by 1 heel's width. Hopefully this is clear.

Miles

 

[TigerWoman]

We train the back stance this way: we go to a wide horse stance, then we turn our left front foot to turn 90° to the other foot. That way, the front foot, the left edge of it, is in line with the back edge of the heel of the right foot. Then we shift the weight to the back.

For forward long stances, we also the puzzle mat length, minus for short legged people. When I trained the long stance, my front foot had to be under my knee as in 90° and bearing most of my weight, as far forward as I could go.

When I did Ke Bon Hyung as a white belt, at first I couldn't get out of the second punch/long stance to transfer to the other side but after a couple of months it became easier as quads became stronger. I saw that the master taught overweight people or five year olds sometimes, a step inbetween (I was taught I could only drag my foot in the middle). Unfortunately, now that same black belt is teaching others to do an additional step even pronouncing it with a stamp of the ball of her foot in the center. Just shows how details can go astray.

We train with tape for forward long stances, then later we use the edge of the puzzle mat for line drills. TW

 

[Fluffy]

Fluffy, thanks for your input on stances. This shows one of the (albeit minor) differences between ITF and Kukkiwon methodologies.

At the Kukkiwon, we were told that our stances are dictated by the length of our steps, not our shoulders.

For example, one of the (unfortunately often disparaged) stances in the Taeguek series is the Walking stance (ap seogi). This is one single step and the feet are approximately two fists apart from back big toe to front foot's heel.

If you take that Walking stance and take 1/2 step forward, that is your Front stance (ap kubi). The additional 1/2 step requires you to bend your front knee so that it is above your front foot.

To get into a Sitting Stance (joo chum seogi), you assume the walking stance and pivot 45 degrees-the distance is only 1 step. This was the hardest change for me when I started training in Kukkiwon methodology from ITF.

A Back stance (dwi kubi) is also 1 step wide. However, unlike the description Fluffy provided, the heel of the back foot is not on the same plane as that of the front foot. If you brought your heels together, your front foot's heel would be on the vertical line with the back heel off the line by 1 heel's width. Hopefully this is clear.

Miles

Yes, interesting. It comes back to the introduction of the 'sine wave'. Being able to bend the knees are very important.