Squeezing The Peach

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GouRonin

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Squeezing the Peach (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Pinned)
1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug and pins your arms in the process.

2. Step your left foot to 6 o'clock as your hands (pinned behind you) reach for and grab your attacker's testicles.

3. Step your left foot to 1:30 into a rear catstance as you pull on your attacker's testicles. Note: This should cause him to release his bear hug.

4. Release your attacker's groin from your grab as you execute a right heel scoop to your attacker's groin. Note: This scoop will pull through and chamber as a raised knee in front of you, hands out in front as well.

5. Step back into a right reverse bow facing 7:30 as you slam your straightened leg into your attacker's right leg, demolishing the kneecap, and simultaneously execute a right outward elbow to your attacker's solar plexus.

6. Cross out towards 1:30.
 

Mace

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As you step to 11:30 to pull the peach and break the hold, shoot your right hand out as an outward handsword to break the hold. This sets up multiple attacker possiblities.
Mace
 

Doc

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Originally posted by GouRonin

Squeezing the Peach (Rear- Bear Hug; Arms Pinned)
1. An attacker at 6 o'clock grabs you in a bear hug and pins your arms in the process.

2. Step your left foot to 6 o'clock as your hands (pinned behind you) reach for and grab your attacker's testicles.

3. Step your left foot to 1:30 into a rear catstance as you pull on your attacker's testicles. Note: This should cause him to release his bear hug.

4. Release your attacker's groin from your grab as you execute a right heel scoop to your attacker's groin. Note: This scoop will pull through and chamber as a raised knee in front of you, hands out in front as well.

5. Step back into a right reverse bow facing 7:30 as you slam your straightened leg into your attacker's right leg, demolishing the kneecap, and simultaneously execute a right outward elbow to your attacker's solar plexus.

6. Cross out towards 1:30.

And how much success do you have with this interpretation when attacked realistically? Are you looking for solutions, or alternatives? Consider this: When seized in a "hug" from the rear that also pins the arms, your mobility is severely restricted. In your verson I would suggest the simple act of "stepping" to 1:30 will be at least "difficult" if seriously grabbed.
 

Nightingale

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being female, I can't say this for sure, but from what I've seen, if you grab a guy's ...uhm...peach, you can usually step any way you want, cause he's not thinking about grabbing you anymore. he's thinking about reaching down and protecting the...peaches...



Nightingale
who's silly bluebelt training partner found out the hard way that he should wear a cup in the dojo.
 

Doc

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Originally posted by nightingale8472

being female, I can't say this for sure, but from what I've seen, if you grab a guy's ...uhm...peach, you can usually step any way you want, cause he's not thinking about grabbing you anymore. he's thinking about reaching down and protecting the...peaches...



Nightingale
who's silly bluebelt training partner found out the hard way that he should wear a cup in the dojo.

You are, as a female, are making an assumption not necessarily associated with the question at hand. You, also as a female, may not be able to grab his "peaches" when seized from behind with your arms pinned. To assume you can is a dangerous assumption.
 

kenmpoka

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It works better for me when I initally move back into a twist stance with the L-foot, and turning my left shoulder counter clockwise loosens up the hold.
Any thoughts Doc?

:asian:
 

Doc

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Originally posted by kenmpoka

It works better for me when I initally move back into a twist stance with the L-foot, and turning my left shoulder counter clockwise loosens up the hold.
Any thoughts Doc?

:asian:

In my opinion, the option you suggest, as I understand it, will not work in a realistic street scenario. Moving "backwards" when someone is attacking you forward with body momentum while pinning your arms will negate such actions.
 

arnisador

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If someone gets you in a bear hug from behind then in all likelihood they're about to try to lift you up and move you--almost certainly by slamming you to the ground. Getting at the groin after they've pinned you may require some work--including getting a low base so they have trouble picking you up. I say, get a little finger on one of those hands and give it an extra joint!
 

jazkiljok

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Originally posted by arnisador

If someone gets you in a bear hug from behind then in all likelihood they're about to try to lift you up and move you--almost certainly by slamming you to the ground. Getting at the groin after they've pinned you may require some work--including getting a low base so they have trouble picking you up. I say, get a little finger on one of those hands and give it an extra joint!

yes, a bear hug is an aggressive move that leads somewhere- no one bearhugs by simply standing behind you and wrapping their arms around you- and if you practice it that way there's no wonder that you find it easy to move about freely.

but the reality is there would be a surge of momemtum and complete closing of any gap between the attacker and his intended victim as Doc is saying.

also you have a natural reflex response to move your hands forward and up to those arms that are crushing you- not back and around.

whatever anyone intends for this technique it would be practical as Arnisador writes, to prevent or delay any attempt to lift you as your first response- then proceed to a counter.

question 1: Doc do you use a version of this technique to handle bearhugs or do you offer other solutions?

question 2: Arnisador- you've already made an opening suggestion-- what type of complete response does FMA offer to this attack?

:asian:
 

arnisador

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Originally posted by jazkiljok

Arnisador- you've already made an opening suggestion-- what type of complete response does FMA offer to this attack?

Most FMAs don't train escapes from holds in my experience, in part because the assumption is always that there will be a weapon involved and so this type of situation is less likely (or more easily solved, if they bear hug you while you're holding a knife, say). Modern Arnis however does address these and the responses were strongly influenced by Wally Jay's SCJJ. So, a Modern Arnis style response would be to drop one's hips and widen one's stance to get a base; try to bridge one's arms out a bit to get some work room while keeping upright; work up and get a finger of one of your opponent's hands; bend or crush it; use that finger to peel off the hand; step out and around and put the arm in any convenient lock; take them down and control or finish or escape as appropriate.

A more natively Filipino approach would probably us dumog, getting at their upper arm and using it to pull them around. I don't know a specific example.
 

Doc

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Originally posted by jazkiljok



yes, a bear hug is an aggressive move that leads somewhere- no one bearhugs by simply standing behind you and wrapping their arms around you- and if you practice it that way there's no wonder that you find it easy to move about freely.

but the reality is there would be a surge of momemtum and complete closing of any gap between the attacker and his intended victim as Doc is saying.

also you have a natural reflex response to move your hands forward and up to those arms that are crushing you- not back and around.

whatever anyone intends for this technique it would be practical as Arnisador writes, to prevent or delay any attempt to lift you as your first response- then proceed to a counter.

question 1: Doc do you use a version of this technique to handle bearhugs or do you offer other solutions?

question 2: Arnisador- you've already made an opening suggestion-- what type of complete response does FMA offer to this attack?

:asian:

In our curriculum we have several components that examine the assault side of every technique before it begins. One of these is the PSYCHOLOGY OF CONFRONTATION. This specifically looks at the attackers actions, how they are triggered, and what is his/her immediate and usually separate ultimate intent.

As a part of that process we are obliged to examine the PHYSICAL MECHANISMS that must come into play to launch the attack. This will yield the answer to establishing functional COUNTER MECHANISMS. In a bear hug scenario, your attacker moves swiftly to secure his actions. This causes him to bring substantial body momentum to the initial assault, as you said.

In this particular attack scenario, the ultimate intent is NOT simply the bear hug. In a singular assault the bear hug is initiated to IMMOBILIZE THE VICTIM for further action. Most likely this will facilitate the victim being lifted from their feet. In most instances there is a size and possible GENDER DISPARITY between the victim and the attacker. (I am not suggesting people of the same gender dont bear hug each other, but when they do the PSYCHOLOGY is different.)

That makes this attacker more dangerous because they are of a type we call a PREDATOR. This is much different from a spontaneous attack. This person moves surreptitiously, lays in wait, has thought the attack through to a point, and has some semblance of a plan. This also falls into the subcategory of a MUGGER HUGGER. Much different from throwing a punch or a TACKLE, because a tackler has a different intent, and brings BODY MOMENTUM in a different purposeful way.

Our solution comes under the most important category in the assault categories. It is called SURVIVE THE INITIAL ASSAULT. S.I.A. is a Sub-Level Four Kenpo Concept that focuses on the performance of the first part of self-defense techniques to insure immediate stability and the absorption of the first offensive action. This leads to the ability to execute and complete the technique sequence, and ultimate survival and effective retaliation. It includes an anti-grappling mechanism called a "GCM" along with significant postures and footwork and pins in conjunction with specifc basics.

This component is taught differently for each type and variation of an assault theme. It is one of the many subtle things that makes the way I was taught and SL-4 different.

In this assault, we have physical mechanisms that first absorb the BODY MOMENTUM, re-configure the attacker to a NEGATIVE BODY POSTURE, and IMMOBILIZE his body as well as PIN his hands in most instances. This prevents him from being able to move, lift, or release. Once this is done and the situation is stabilized, then we move to retaliation mechanisms.

Although this seems complex, (and in a sense it is) someone who has never done it can be walked through it rather simply in person. Unfortunately it really is too difficult to understand the subtleties when written. For that reason we dont even include it in our coursebooks. It is taught by certificated staff in the classroom environment. It is not a secret and I share it with students I meet all the time.

It's great to see the discussions move toward reasonable and intelligent thoughts. That is what makes these forums worth the effort. Also a reminder that I am not suggesting someone else's teachings are wrong, but only sharing what I was taught and created to add to the discussion and to provoke thought.

Respectfully

Excerpt from SubLevel Four Kenpo Course 104

SQUEEZING THE PEACH - (Rear bear hug -- arms pinned low)

1. SURVIVE THE INITIAL ASSAULT and absorb his momentum and with your feet together, and your opponent applying the bear-hug, step back slightly with your left foot toward 6:00 into a right MODIFIED SHORT forward bow (facing 12 o'clock). Push your buttocks into him to control depth. Use your momentum to REVERSE HEAD BUTT, then SHOTGUN SLAP, followed by a SEIZE of your opponent's testicles or flesh inside of thigh with your left hand, holding tight, keeping your opponent tight against your body. During this action your right hand should attempt to apply a PINNING check on top of your opponent's right wrist, and pulls downward. All of this should cause your opponent to release or at least loosen his grip. PAUSE
2. Immediately step straight forward with your left foot (while maintaining the grab
with your left hand tightly) toward 12 o'clock into a left neutral bow pulling your opponent with you, causing him to open his legs and, placing his crotch directly over your right foot. PAUSE
3. Now Pivot toward 3:00 into a horse stance, pulling and jerking downward then immediately striking with a right upward heel kick to your opponent's groin. STOP
4. With your right leg still in the air from the right heel kick, buckle your opponents
left inner knee by stomping into a right reverse bow toward 10:30. Then immediately execute a right BACK OBSCURE ELBOW strike to the chin of your opponent, as your left hand slap checks at your right shoulder.
5. Execute a right front crossover, and cover out toward 4:30.
Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2 P 34 C
GCM Signature: 1G, 23, 4G, 5
 

jazkiljok

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Originally posted by arnisador



Most FMAs don't train escapes from holds in my experience, in part because the assumption is always that there will be a weapon involved and so this type of situation is less likely (or more easily solved, if they bear hug you while you're holding a knife, say). Modern Arnis however does address these and the responses were strongly influenced by Wally Jay's SCJJ. ...

A more natively Filipino approach would probably us dumog, getting at their upper arm and using it to pull them around. I don't know a specific example.

it is fascinating how culture influences the martial arts of different societies. the common carrying of knifes and machetes might alter how you attack some one i assume:D

i believe the late great Remy Presas had developed a great rapport with Wally Jay while touring together giving seminars- that might explain the relationship.

and working a finger at its joint is very effective- though not demostrated in the techniques- it is taught out of one of the Kenpo forms.


Doc- always much food for thought. i regret that we don't have familiarity with your coding system- and i agree that writing a technique out is never enough -- words do fail to explain or teach the intricacies of the fighting arts. that said- you do a very good job anyway:D

" Push your buttocks into him to control depth. "

it would seem to me that this is where you win or lose the battle- right? along with the reverse head butt-- now we're talking.

thank you both for your responses.

:asian:
 

Doc

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Originally posted by jazkiljok



it is fascinating how culture influences the martial arts of different societies. the common carrying of knifes and machetes might alter how you attack some one i assume:D

i believe the late great Remy Presas had developed a great rapport with Wally Jay while touring together giving seminars- that might explain the relationship.

and working a finger at its joint is very effective- though not demostrated in the techniques- it is taught out of one of the Kenpo forms.


Doc- always much food for thought. i regret that we don't have familiarity with your coding system- and i agree that writing a technique out is never enough -- words do fail to explain or teach the intricacies of the fighting arts. that said- you do a very good job anyway:D

" Push your buttocks into him to control depth. "

it would seem to me that this is where you win or lose the battle- right? along with the reverse head butt-- now we're talking.

thank you both for your responses.

:asian:

Thank you for the kind words. Unfortunately the battle is won or lost in the part that is unwritten. If you can't "survive the initial assault," you won't be able to do the rest of the technique. Much appreciated.
 

Doc

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Originally posted by kenmpoka

I missed the part pivoting to 3:00. My mistake.

:asian:
Hey Sir. Now that's unusual. You're a detail man and don't usually miss anything. Let me know how it works for you.
 

Nightingale

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Doc:

Couple of questions...

What's a shotgun slap, and what does this mean?

5. Execute a right front crossover, and cover out toward 4:30.
Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2 P 34 C
GCM Signature: 1G, 23, 4G, 5


I understand the right front crossover and cover bit, but not the two lines that follow.
 

Doc

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Originally posted by nightingale8472

Doc:

Couple of questions...

What's a shotgun slap, and what does this mean?

5. Execute a right front crossover, and cover out toward 4:30.
Timing & Breathing Signature: 1 P 2 P 34 C
GCM Signature: 1G, 23, 4G, 5


I understand the right front crossover and cover bit, but not the two lines that follow.

SHOTGUN STRIKE - An open handed finger spread slap with the palm or back of the hand. This method has a greater tolerance for error and radiates energy through a PERCUSSION type strike. Also used against harder targets in training to make contact without injury.

TIME SIGNATURE - Sub-Level Four Kenpo self-defense techniques have a particular rhythm of proper execution that allows for PAIRED RHYTHM reactions of your opponent and conforms to DESTRUCTIVE SEQUENCING PACING. When written into a technique as a simple formula, it is known as a Timing Signature. It also conforms to a breathing rhythm that promotes the development of internal Qi energy. Therefore each self-defense technique is in itself a micro Taiji form with practical application emphasized as it is learned instead of later in the old Chinese method.

BREATHING SIGNATURE* - The Sub-Level Four Kenpo Breathing Signature instructs students to breath in the appropriate manner within the technique sequence. Without proper breathing, internal energy and explosive technique execution may not be achieved. The combination of the Breathing and Timing Signatures creates in essence a
mini-Qi-gung "Taiji" form of every technique. Therefore some of its benefits may be achieved when a partner is not available, while achieving physical and mental focus with the enhancement or creation of an internal energy bridge to the physical action.

I love LA (except for the schools) :) Kids can't read and they are worried about vending machines?
 
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Nightingale said:
being female, I can't say this for sure, but from what I've seen, if you grab a guy's ...uhm...peach, you can usually step any way you want, cause he's not thinking about grabbing you anymore. he's thinking about reaching down and protecting the...peaches...



Nightingale
who's silly bluebelt training partner found out the hard way that he should wear a cup in the dojo.
Not in my experience.I knew of a women that was hurt bad when she did this!The guy just slamed the side of her head and knocking her out with his fist!!!I like to keep my hands free for blocking defence.
 
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