Gripping Talon - Blue 20 EPAK

[Dominic Jones]

If the attacker has only grabbed your wrist; why not just kick them. Short and Sweet.

Cheers Dom:asian:

(From www.kenponet.com Thanks)
Gripping Talon (Front- Left Hand Direct Wrist Grab)
1. An attacker at 12 o'clock grabs your right wrist with their left hand.

2. Step your right foot to 12 o'clock into a right neutral bow facing 12 o'clock as you circle your right hand counterclockwise, under and to the outside of your attacker's left wrist as you circle your left hand counterclockwise and grab your attacker's left wrist. This frees your right hand to execute a right back hammerfist to your attacker's groin.

Grafting Flow
Crossing Talon (opposite side)
3. Execute a right inward elbow to your attacker's left ribs.
4. Follow through and reverse the action, executing a right outward elbow to your attacker's right ribs.

5. Step your left foot to 1:30 into a left rear crossover as you execute a right backfist to your attacker's left ribs. (Meanwhile, maintain control of your attacker's left hand.)

6. Step your right foot to 1:30 into a right reverse bow to buckle to the inside of your attacker's left leg as you execute a right looping wrist strike to the right side of your attacker's neck. (Coordinate this move by yanking on your attacker's left arm.)

7. As your attacker falls, execute a right knee strike to your attacker's face.

8. Continue the motion and cross out to 4:30.

 

[Bill Lear]

Understanding the nature of attacks is key to the system...

Perhaps the reason for not kicking him would have to do with whether or not he is pulling you after he grabs your wrist.

:asian:

 

[kenpo12]

If the attacker has only grabbed your wrist; why not just kick them. Short and Sweet.

It's generally not wise to lift your foot from the ground if someone is grabbing and pulling. Also, lets say you do kick them and that doesn't stop them, you have no control over them and have to start from a "sparring" perspective and may or may not win. If you regrab as the technique calls for you are not only striking your attacker but you are controlling him as well. There are many more "what-if" I could go into but to my understanding those are some of the basic reasons why you don't just kick them.

 

[Michael Billings]

the contact manipulations and pain contols immediately applied, which continue throughout the technique, from the various wrist and elbow manipulations.

Besides, why kick somebody for grabbing your wrist. This teaches another release contact manipuation that can work without the strikes, if so desired. Which giving you a graduated response if the attack escalates.

-Michael

 

[WhiteTiger]

It is not the grabbing hand you are worried about it is his opposite hand. He has neutralized your power hand with his weak hand, leaving his power hand free for a punch to your head. If you stand and kick you will eat the right punch. The object is to neutralize his right hand while you counter attack. You can do this by either moving to the outside of his left (grabbing) hand, or step back with your left into reverse soft bow stance and back kick to the ribs - (Twisting Talon, Tracy's Yellow Belt)

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by WhiteTiger

It is not the grabbing hand you are worried about it is his opposite hand. He has neutralized your power hand with his weak hand, leaving his power hand free for a punch to your head. If you stand and kick you will eat the right punch. The object is to neutralize his right hand while you counter attack. You can do this by either moving to the outside of his left (grabbing) hand, or step back with your left into reverse soft bow stance and back kick to the ribs - (Twisting Talon, Tracy's Yellow Belt)

I agree! Good post.
:asian:

 

[c2kenpo]

One ofthe ways i looked at Gripping Talon was in a multiple attack scenario of placing your attacking opponent inbetween you and some of his buddies using his body as a barrier and also as a means of scanning your environment via the rear crossover creating distance and range while you buckle your current opponents leg.
Hopefully his buddies see him drop like a rock and decide discretion is the better part of not being the next to get hit!

 

[Bill Lear]

I think the most important part of the equation in this technique, and other techniques like it, is the nature of the attack.

If the technique is practiced for a static attack, the heart of the technique (the living part of the technique) is lost.

If the technique is practiced for an active attack (a grab accompanied with a tug, or pull) then the true application of the technique can be explored.

Try doing Gripping Talon for a two handed wrist grab with the attacker pulling you toward your 11:00. Then try it for your attacker pulling you toward your 1:00. You may find the difference in your opponent's pull will dictate whether or not you choose to apply Gripping Talon or Darting Mace, both of which are techniques regularly taught for a two-handed right wrist grab.

Redundancy? I don't think so.

Different techniques for different situations? Yep!

:asian:

 

[MisterMike]

I agree with Mr. Lear. Many of the techniques as listed in the Infinite Insights series only give a general description of the attack. Take Twin Kimono and Mace of Aggression, both for a "two hand lapel grab." But which one is pushing away and which is pulling in? (or arms straight/bent)

 

[rmcrobertson]

Mace of Aggression...mostly, and certainly at yellow belt, pulling. TK...at first, pushing.

As for--the attacker's?--arms being straight or bent, well, depends on what you do. "Mace," suggests it doesn't matter, so much, because you're not attacking the elbows. "Twin," says straighten them by stepping back.

And then, the extension to Lone Kimono suggests that the attacker has bent their arms as you attempted to attack the elbows...

 

[pete]

in addition to being used to leverage borrowed force when being pulled, mace of aggression also applies if your pushed up against a wall. rather use the step back to neutralize his oncoming (pushing) force, the wall will do it and allow you to advance.

 

[c2kenpo]

everyones got great points here as to why we have so many techniques that are so similar in motion. Each one either moving forward , backwards, push, pull, etc. The questions is WHY do we move in a paticular direction and that goes with the cycle of considerations of environment and attitude. But the biggest reason is we have CHOICE above all.

Gripping Talon is just one of many technices that you can use in flow drills and exercises in motion. Try changing the range of the attacker from close to far away and see what other techniqes or flow drill you can come up with. (Grip of Death, Broken Gift, etc..)

Getting off my stump.....:soapbox:

Have great Kenpo Fun!

Dave Gunzburg

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Dominic Jones
If the attacker has only grabbed your wrist; why not just kick them. Short and Sweet.
Cheers Dom:asian:

Xactly..... in reality why not!... it is certainly an option, but also keep in mind that there are definite reasons why the technique is written like it is for teaching in the ideal phase for a specific attack.

Other than that, "what if" takes place.... and the "equation formula" is now active and useful for variable expansion options.

:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Originally posted by Bill Lear
Understanding the nature of attacks is key to the system...

Perhaps the reason for not kicking him would have to do with whether or not he is pulling you after he grabs your wrist.

:asian:

Billy, Thanks for the obvious answer. Kicking isn't exactly a grapplig defense. When you are grabbed you are being led into an unfavable predicament. This is no time for the "spread your legs" defense when your balance is in his hands :asian:
Sean

 

[MisterMike]

For this technique, I do not look at it as grappling. A single hand wrist grab can be broken without even hitting the person. Look at the isolation in Long 3, after Destructive Twins.

Most Kenpo techniques do not need to be run to completion. There's a point at which the techniques can become category completion.

 

[Michael Billings]

I see that "release in Long Form 3" as being utilized here, but then with the addition of the contact manipulation with the left hand. The rest of the technique comes in, when the opponent tries to continue and hit me with his right, or kick with his left leg.

Just part of the what if's in the technique analysis process.

-Michael

 

[Bill Lear]

Originally posted by Touch'O'Death
Billy, Thanks for the obvious answer. Kicking isn't exactly a grapplig defense. When you are grabbed you are being led into an unfavable predicament. This is no time for the "spread your legs" defense when your balance is in his hands :asian:
Sean

HA HA HA! You said "Spread your legs"!!! :rofl:

 

[rmcrobertson]

Is it just me, or does the "Grafting Flow," mentioned above look an awful lot like the usual extension to Crossing Talon?

 

[Michael Billings]

I cannot find an earlier post about "Grafting Flow" per se.

If you were looking at my possible what-if, I was not Graphting, so much as offering a graduated response. The Contact Manipulation does not bend them over as much or attack the elbow, rather it is a vertical wrist manipulation with one hand, while still executing Gripping Talon.

If directed at someone else ... whoops. I do Right and Left on all the techniques, so if it was Crossing Talon's extension, or even the latter part of the Base Technique, I would have referenced that.

So what exactly was your point here?

<<Scratching my head>>

-Michael

 

[rmcrobertson]

Oh, dopey me. I was referring to the very first post in the thread.

And--just between thee and me, of course--I had an axe to grind--it is starting to amaze me how often these, "innovations," look very like the original techniques or the endings.