Sport Poomsae and not well known changes

[taekwondodo]

I do not know if every instructors/coaches know, but there is a MAJOR changes in Form/Poomsae Divisions for Qualifiers and Nationals.

Major changes affecting 10-13 yr BLK BLT & 14-17 BLK BLT:
USAT eliminated individual form division and any athletes in the above catagories, want to compete in Poomsae, they have to compete in the Sport Poomsae divisions.

The athletes from 10-13 needs to know: Taekguek 1, 3,4,5,6,7,8 and Koryo.

14-17 needs to know Taekguek 4,5,6,7,8, Koryo, Kumgang, & Taebek.

It is not well advertised on USTA side, I found out by accident last night. This change will eliminates 95% of our Black Belts athletes who usually compete in individual Poomsae competition at National.

link: http://usa-taekwondo.us/events/2721/page?page_id=8239

 

[ATC]

If you compete it is well known. Also why should it eliminate any Black Belts from competing? Black Belts should know their forms. My kids are only 11 and 12 and they both know up to Sip Jin plus all the Taegeuks. If you have competed in the past 2 years this is how its been.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Not having competed in forms... ever... I have to ask; what is the sport poomsae division and what division is it that has been eliminated? If it is a tournament, it would seem that everything is 'sport.'

Daniel

 

[terryl965]

Those changes have been in place, so why all the fuss about it. Anybody that is doing TKD should know all there poomsae not just a few when it is time to test. This is what is wrong in today MA community, we believe that people should not be doing poomsae or only know the movements, what about the principle involed in each poomsae?

 

[Miles]

Not having competed in forms... ever... I have to ask; what is the sport poomsae division and what division is it that has been eliminated? If it is a tournament, it would seem that everything is 'sport.'

Daniel

The change is one in format. It used to be that you competed in poomsae by performing an assigned poomsae (such as Koryo for 1st dan) based on rank.

Now the format is based not on rank, but on the competitor's age. So for instance, as a 46yr old (I would be in the 1st Master's division), I need to know through Chonkwon (7th dan poomsae)-not too bad for someone who has trained for 35 yrs but what about the 46 yr old green belt who only needs to know Taeguek 5 for his next rank test?

 

[MSUTKD]

This only applies to black belts

 

[Miles]

Bad example on my part! <bows>

 

[taekwondodo]

If you compete it is well known. Also why should it eliminate any Black Belts from competing? Black Belts should know their forms. My kids are only 11 and 12 and they both know up to Sip Jin plus all the Taegeuks. If you have competed in the past 2 years this is how its been.

We didn't know, EVEN I, who competed in 1st Master in the last two years. I should clarify this, my instructor and I did not know about elimination of the 1 form format for the 10-13 year old blk blt.

Last year they still have the 1 form division, this year, it eliminated. If they change this format, USAT should broad cast it back in the summer for the instructors, ie me, to prepare the kids.

Sport Poomsae is not just "knowing the forms" but knowing the forms and executed it correctly, with proper stances, proper techniques..etc. You just can't say to "oh..just do your form". Sport Poomsae is totally more technical and different.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Bad example on my part! <bows>

Not necessarily. Would your example still hold true if the 46 year old in question was a first dan? Would they still need to know patterns for up to 7th dan?

The ITF breaks down patterns competition by rank as well as age, so it's not an issue with people learning patterns higher than what their rank requires. (You do generally learn 3 patterns per dan level, however, so if you compete a lot you could run into the problem of not knowing one of the required patterns, but that's another topic!)

Pax,

Chris

 

[ATC]

We didn't know, EVEN I, who competed in 1st Master in the last two years. I should clarify this, my instructor and I did not know about elimination of the 1 form format for the 10-13 year old blk blt.

Last year they still have the 1 form division, this year, it eliminated. If they change this format, USAT should broad cast it back in the summer for the instructors, ie me, to prepare the kids.

Sport Poomsae is not just "knowing the forms" but knowing the forms and executed it correctly, with proper stances, proper techniques..etc. You just can't say to "oh..just do your form". Sport Poomsae is totally more technical and different.

Last Nationals was this format and so was Team Trials. Also the 2008 Hamnadang that was in LA was this format as well. If you compete at the national level you should have known this format.

No the US Open did not use this format last year but the format was being use at the national events.

Yes you need to know the details of each form. If you don't you won't advance.

 

[ATC]

Not necessarily. Would your example still hold true if the 46 year old in question was a first dan? Would they still need to know patterns for up to 7th dan?

Yes.

 

[taekwondodo]

You missed my point.

I do know there are two types of format:
1. regular form that was offered at last year National required kids to do 1 form at their rank
2. Competitive Poomsae=Sport Poomsae

These were offered last year. This year at State, Qualifiers and National there is only 1 type: Sport Poomsae.

My kids are not prepared for Sport Poomsae nor they are they interested in doing Sport Poomsae. They are more interested in competing and training in 1 form at their rank.

Out of 60 black belt kids from 10-17 of age I only have 5 who are interested and passionate about learning forms and want to compete in Sport Poomsae. Those I've been training them since last August. The rest, they want to perform only 1 and have been training for 1 form.

Not EVERY one is passionate and want to participate in Sport Poomsae.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

The change is one in format. It used to be that you competed in poomsae by performing an assigned poomsae (such as Koryo for 1st dan) based on rank.

Now the format is based not on rank, but on the competitor's age. So for instance, as a 46yr old (I would be in the 1st Master's division), I need to know through Chonkwon (7th dan poomsae)-not too bad for someone who has trained for 35 yrs but what about the 46 yr old green belt who only needs to know Taeguek 5 for his next rank test?

So essentially, if guy or gal starts taekwondo at the age of 38 and gets their first dan at the age of 42, goes to a competition to compete in forms, they need to know poomsae for first through seventh dan? Even though they have been in the art for less time than a twenty eight year old fourth dan?

Daniel

 

[Tez3]

We didn't know, EVEN I, who competed in 1st Master in the last two years. I should clarify this, my instructor and I did not know about elimination of the 1 form format for the 10-13 year old blk blt.

Last year they still have the 1 form division, this year, it eliminated. If they change this format, USAT should broad cast it back in the summer for the instructors, ie me, to prepare the kids.

Sport Poomsae is not just "knowing the forms" but knowing the forms and executed it correctly, with proper stances, proper techniques..etc. You just can't say to "oh..just do your form". Sport Poomsae is totally more technical and different.

They may know 'proper' stances and 'proper' techniques but do they know what they are for? Can they use them usefully in a SD situation? Can they actually even fight?

 

[terryl965]

They may know 'proper' stances and 'proper' techniques but do they know what they are for? Can they use them usefully in a SD situation? Can they actually even fight?

Alot of them probaly not but there are some like Master Southwick that goes deep into every detail of any poomsae.

 

[Tez3]

Alot of them probaly not but there are some like Master Southwick that goes deep into every detail of any poomsae.

It would be good to train with him, even when you don't know a particular kata/form you can still learn so much. It may be just me but I really can't see the point of going through the motions without learning the hows and whys.

 

[Miles]

So essentially, if guy or gal starts taekwondo at the age of 38 and gets their first dan at the age of 42, goes to a competition to compete in forms, they need to know poomsae for first through seventh dan? Even though they have been in the art for less time than a twenty eight year old fourth dan?

Daniel

Yes, sir! (Plus Taeguek 8)

 

[ATC]

You missed my point.

I do know there are two types of format:
1. regular form that was offered at last year National required kids to do 1 form at their rank
2. Competitive Poomsae=Sport Poomsae

These were offered last year. This year at State, Qualifiers and National there is only 1 type: Sport Poomsae.

My kids are not prepared for Sport Poomsae nor they are they interested in doing Sport Poomsae. They are more interested in competing and training in 1 form at their rank.

Out of 60 black belt kids from 10-17 of age I only have 5 who are interested and passionate about learning forms and want to compete in Sport Poomsae. Those I've been training them since last August. The rest, they want to perform only 1 and have been training for 1 form.

Not EVERY one is passionate and want to participate in Sport Poomsae.

That is why there are local tournaments. You can still do what you want. Don't want to do sport poomsae then don't. Not sure what the point is. We only have 5 students out of 250 that do sport poomsae. So only those that want to do it do. The rest only do local tournaments or none at all. They just do the forms up to their belt.

The 5 that do sport poomsae and any new comers that want to take the sport poomsae class that is offered. This is free for student and is taught only twice a week.

 

[ATC]

It would be good to train with him, even when you don't know a particular kata/form you can still learn so much. It may be just me but I really can't see the point of going through the motions without learning the hows and whys.

It is like any sport. Why do we play basketball, football, or soccer even though we don't know the proper techniques and how to use them like the pros? For the fun of it, you enjoy it.

 

[Tez3]

It is like any sport. Why do we play basketball, football, or soccer even though we don't know the proper techniques and how to use them like the pros? For the fun of it, you enjoy it.

I have to disagree with you. When you play soccer, basketball etc you may not have the techniques of the pros but you know what the point of the game is ie in soccer to score goals and you know what to do to score goals, where the ball has to go etc.
If you do kata/forms without knowing what the point is ie the self defence and fighting moves they are teaching you, all you are doing is waving your arms and legs around in pretty patterns.
You don't aimless wander around with a ball in your hand in soccer so you don't aimlessly wander around in a kata/form in martial arts.