spinning...is it really all that great?

[KempoGuy06]

This was the topic in class last night. We worked spinning back fist with some combos mixed in there as well.

I hated spinning when I was first introduced to it but now Im starting to like (once i got over the feeling that I was going to :barf.

What is your take? useful or useless? for the instructors: what level, belt, grade or whatever do you start to introduce this? or if you dont why not?

what drills do you do to work this?

B

 

[BrandonLucas]

In our classes, in TKD, we start working on spinning sidekicks at yellowbelt, and the other spinning techniques follow in degree of difficulty in advanced ranks.

I love spinning techniques, but they have their place, much like any other technique that is used. It can be a risky move, but when done with proper timing and speed, it can be a highly effective and devestating technique.

It does take a while to get used to, though...and btw...spinning backfists used to be my forte....still trying to get back into the "swing" of things, though.

 

[jarrod]

you can be a complete, well-rounded martial artist without ever mastering any spinning techniques. that said, they have a time & place & can be a useful tool.

i learned how to do them long ago, but never ever tried them in sparring. i've only recently started to try them in sparring, mainly because i was getting a little bored & thought they looked cool. timing is vital for landing any spinning technique, unless you have a huge skill advantage over your opponent.

jf

 

[Tetsujin]

I love spinning techniques, and find them to be hugely effective in sparring. They can be fast, powerful, and very easy to combine with other techniques into useful combinations. They are also a very good way for fighters of smaller build to make up for a comparative lack of power against larger opponents.

Here are a couple of basic backfist drills that I've found to be useful:

i) Offensive spinning backfist: From a fighting stance, slide-step forward jabbing with the lead hand (say left) and immediately roll that jab into a three-quarter backfist to your opponents left temple, thereby drawing his attention and defenses to that side. Use this initial backfist to cover a simultaneous cross-step (your right foot behind your left and towards your opponent), and then as you retract that initial backfist, spin clockwise with a right-hand spinning backfist to your opponents unguarded right temple. (As a variation you can throw a side thrust kick from the cross-step instead of the second backfist, but then it's no longer a spinning drill/technique. It also then becomes a high/low distraction, rather than left/right.)

ii) Defensive spinning backfist: From a narrow fighting stance, or side stance, as your opponent moves in towards you with a linear attack (e.g. L or R middle punch), stay in place and deflect it across your body with an outside to inside middle block with your lead hand (say left). Continue the clockwise motion of the block by using its momentum to immediately rotate clockwise into a right-hand spinning backfist. You want to keep your feet in place, and rotate on the ball of the front (left) foot and the heel of the back (right) foot, such that you finish in a cross-leg stance low and with both knees bent.
(Obviously this is a dangerous place to be if your backfist gets blocked, but in application you would not stay there after the backfist, and would instead look to immediately either counter-rotate in the opposite direction back to your initial stance with another spinning backfist off your other hand, or launch into a right-leg side thrust kick which the cross-leg stance sets you up for rather nicely).

I've also found a good spinning hook kick to be an excellent offensive technique (provided it isn't telegraphed by poor footwork or setup). And the spinning side/back kick works really well as a defensive technique against an opponent moving in towards you.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Spinning, since it does turn your back toward your opponent, should be reserved for a counter attack or a secondary attack (part of a combination.)

To use it for real you need to:

a) cut out any telegraphing of the technique.
b) combine it with a block to speed up the technique.
c) combine the chamber (if kicking, that's brining the leg up to fire, if backfisting that's cocking the arm as you spin) with the spin to also speed up the technique.

As I said, try not to use it as a primary attacking technique unless you are awful fast and your opponent is slow (and if that's the case, there are much easier techniques to use.)

Deaf

 

[bluekey88]

It has it's place. Just go to youtube and look up David lieuaseau. He finished a fight in like 14 seconds. this guy comes charging in for a takedown and he executes a picture perfect back kick. The look on the guys face is priceless. He was totally unable to continue.

Wish I could remember the guy's name...in any event, it shows when trained right and used appropriately, spinning kicks and the like have their place.

Peace,
Erik

 

[GBlues]

I have always figured that the spinning backfist really, was more of a your fighting opponent "A" and hid buddy "B" comes running up behind. YOu catch the movement out of the corner of your eye or whatever, and you notice he's to close for a spinning back kick, so you pop him with a backfist which if then leads you to deal with buddy "B" . Or you've followed your backfist all the way, back around to finish buddy "A", so you can then finish your work on buddy "B". Just my take.

 

[SA_BJJ]

I have always figured that the spinning backfist really, was more of a your fighting opponent "A" and hid buddy "B" comes running up behind. YOu catch the movement out of the corner of your eye or whatever, and you notice he's to close for a spinning back kick, so you pop him with a backfist which if then leads you to deal with buddy "B" . Or you've followed your backfist all the way, back around to finish buddy "A", so you can then finish your work on buddy "B". Just my take.

Wow.....:jediduel:

 

[bluekey88]

I have always figured that the spinning backfist really, was more of a your fighting opponent "A" and hid buddy "B" comes running up behind. YOu catch the movement out of the corner of your eye or whatever, and you notice he's to close for a spinning back kick, so you pop him with a backfist which if then leads you to deal with buddy "B" . Or you've followed your backfist all the way, back around to finish buddy "A", so you can then finish your work on buddy "B". Just my take.

Matt Sera would disagree. He got toally laid out by one of those in a fight and it totally derailed his early run for the UFD Middle weight championship. The same guy damn near knocked him out again with the same technqiue when they had a rematch during the ultimate fighter. It's not about dealing with someone behind you...it's about generating power and covering distance. It's a risk reward thing...more risk, but landing a spinning technique has definite rewards.

Peace,
Erik

 

[MJS]

Spinning, IMO, has its place, however, it needs to be done with care. If its not done correctly, you will telegraph your self. This goes for a spinning backfist or any spinning kick. I've caught my share of people with spinning techniques and I've also been caught and jammed up.

As far as using this for mult. attackers, frankly, I would avoid spinning if at all possible.

 

[KempoGuy06]

i learned about the amazing power a spinning back kick has, i landed one on a black belt, but he moved in and was going to use a scissor kick. well i ended up hitting him in the ABC, no damage done but he told me that had that been at the chest or ribs it would have been a solid kick. I was amazed because it was a fairly new kick for me and i wasnt trying to put a lot of force into it.

Ill be using more spinning in my sparring from now on

B

 

[Tetsujin]

Just go to youtube and look up David lieuaseau.

I tried this but didn't find anything. Is this the correct spelling? Can anyone give me a YT link?

 

[YoungMan]

Spinning is like anything else. Those who put the time in and master it have a potent weapon whether in sparring or self defense. Those who don't or can't think it doesn't work.

 

[Fiendlover]

This was the topic in class last night. We worked spinning back fist with some combos mixed in there as well.

I hated spinning when I was first introduced to it but now Im starting to like (once i got over the feeling that I was going to :barf.

What is your take? useful or useless? for the instructors: what level, belt, grade or whatever do you start to introduce this? or if you dont why not?

what drills do you do to work this?

B

I loving spinning things. lol. I think it's useful because it generates more power and it's unexpected. we started learing spinning back kicks at blue belt i believe.

 

[KempoGuy06]

I loving spinning things. lol. I think it's useful because it generates more power and it's unexpected. we started learing spinning back kicks at blue belt i believe.

you a Kempo'ist as well?

we learn spinning at blue as well

B

 

[bluekey88]

I tried this but didn't find anything. Is this the correct spelling? Can anyone give me a YT link?

I'm not sure on the spelling.

Here...jsut checked. Try this spelling

Loiseau

Peace,
Erik

P.S. this is what I get for trying to post late at night after a gruelling workout.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Spinning, since it does turn your back toward your opponent, should be reserved for a counter attack or a secondary attack (part of a combination.)

To use it for real you need to:

a) cut out any telegraphing of the technique.
b) combine it with a block to speed up the technique.
c) combine the chamber (if kicking, that's brining the leg up to fire, if backfisting that's cocking the arm as you spin) with the spin to also speed up the technique.

As I said, try not to use it as a primary attacking technique unless you are awful fast and your opponent is slow (and if that's the case, there are much easier techniques to use.)

Deaf

Summed up better than I could have done. I have used spinning kicks and spinning backfists in sparring, but only very, very sparringly. In my last competition, I did score with one spinning side kick, but was only able to do so because my opponent had given me a very wide opening.

Daniel

 

[geezer]

I loving spinning things. lol. I think it's useful because it generates more power and it's unexpected.

Spinning backfist... a few thoughts...

In favor: 1. generates power though torque. 2. Unexpected, unless telegraphed. 3. Looks cool, unless you get jammed and clobbered.

Against: 1. Exposes your back. 2. Takes a longer path to the target. 3. Looks really stupid if you get jammed and clobbered.

In the system I study I can only think of one or two situations in which any kind of spinning move might be justified. 1. If you are being torqued or twisted by someone trying to grapple your arm, and 2. If (as mentioned before) you are spinning around to face a second attacker. Other than that, we would rather be the guys that jam and clobber!

 

[bluekey88]

I will add a third situation. As a counter to an attack. Specifically, your opponent has committed to an attack, the spinning technique removes your from thetarget area and launches a simulatneous counter.

Specifially, I'm thinking about the use of the back kick as a counter to a back leg roundhouse. Or maybe a spinning back fist to a front thrust kick or lunging type attack.

Peace,
Erik

 

[myusername]

Spinning is like anything else. Those who put the time in and master it have a potent weapon whether in sparring or self defense. Those who don't or can't think it doesn't work.

This is a really good point. Personally I hated spinning when I was doing TKD! I was introduced to it at yellow belt and immediately had an issue with it. I just couldn't/wouldn't make it work for me. That was because being new to them I was slow and awkward! However, there were black belts in the class who could perform them so well you never saw them coming when sparring. Seeing those techniques performed at full speed and power there is no way in the world I would dare say that spinning strikes aren't useful! But I do believe that you have to be well practiced and skilled in their delivery. I never had the patience but those who did put the time into mastering them had a very deadly set of techniques at their disposal.