Sparring with Instructor

[cbjr5]

I recently sparred with one of my instructors. This was the first time I sparred with an Instructor. It was fun, however, still being new, I just started sparring and it's always been with other students. Also, we have full protection gear. When my instructor called me to spar with him, all he told me was to make sure I protect me head and work on combinations that we have been working on. Now, when sparring with other students, we are both wearing protective gear so we can go at it pretty good. Now with my instructor, he wore no protection gear. He never told me how hard I could go with him such as 50%, 75% or 100%. Now granted, I know my instructor can kick my butt, but I also know I can hit back a lot harder than I did the night I sparred with him, I was probably going about 50%.

After sparring with him, I asked him if I should of hit back harder, but he never gave me a straight answer, only that he does not like to wear gear because he is old school. He also said I did really good, which made feel good, since I was winded but did my best not to let him know. My question is this, any recommendations on how hard I should go next time I get to spar with an instructor. Talking to some of my other instructors and senior belts the answers are all over the board from "you should fight him a 100% and if he gets hurt his fault for not wearing gear" to "what you did was fine". I respect my instructor and don't want to look wimpy either if I'm not fighting hard. Like I said earlier, I know he can beat me, but I could pack a punch too. All in all, it was fun and I look forward to doing it again.

 

[terryl965]

You should re ask and try to get an honest answer. This would be the best option.

 

[K31]

Sparring is sparring. It's not fighting. Unless you are practicing for an Olympic match, maybe, you should never hit anyone during sparring with everything you have.

Sparring the instructor is always tightrope walk because if you try too hard you might be perceived as trying to show him up.

I've read that protective gear is to protect the one "being" hit so I don't think his not wearing it should effect your decision but personally I would not try to hit the instructor or another student with everything I had while sparring. He probably honestly wants to evaluate your technique and use of combinations rather than your power.

 

[granfire]

Sounds good. You where working on your stuff, no need to go all out.

Especially sparring the higher ranks and more experienced, taking it back a notch is a good thing. If he thought you need to put more muscle in it he'd tell you!

 

[JWLuiza]

Sparring with an upperbelt or instructor is like a nuclear arms race. They should let you set the pace. So if you were hitting him @ 50% he was probably responding in kind. If you escalate, the upperbelt should respond in kind.

 

[Twin Fist]

and now for something competely different.........

My answer is the opposite.

The lower belt should fight UP to the higher belt and the higher belt should fight down.

Why? the higher belt in theory should be able to pound the lower belt, doing so teaches the upper belt nothing, holding back,, controlling his power DOES teach the upper belt something. When I spar with lower belts, i fight them as if they were one belt higher than they are wearing.

When fighting UP, the lower belt should amp it up. Try to fight on the upper belts level. This teaches him to improve his technique and speed.

But, a word of warning, NEVER kick your instructor in the groin. Back things happen. Many deaths.................. LOL



oh, one exception, Brown belts? i pound Brown belts. They are after all trying to join a very exclusive club. They need to EARN it. Plus Brown Belts are always cocky. They need the humility.

 

[igillman]

I would start with light taps. If the instructor says "you can hit me harder" then start to hit harder until they stop saying that. If they really wanted you to go all-out they would put on the protective gear.

I always ask the power level when I spar and the reply is usually 25% or 50%.

 

[MBuzzy]

I think it depends what you are referring to with the percentages. You should spar with 100% effort, but not necessarily 100% power. I know someone who goes as hard as humanly possible against everyone. Since the instructor lets the lower belt set the pace, this particular person gets pounded within an inch of his life (same situation, full gear on student, none on instructor). Basically when you get REALLY hard against your instructor, he's probably going to go real hard back....so just keep in mind that you probably don't WANT your instructor going hard back against you.

 

[granfire]

I think it depends what you are referring to with the percentages. You should spar with 100% effort, but not necessarily 100% power. I know someone who goes as hard as humanly possible against everyone. Since the instructor lets the lower belt set the pace, this particular person gets pounded within an inch of his life (same situation, full gear on student, none on instructor). Basically when you get REALLY hard against your instructor, he's probably going to go real hard back....so just keep in mind that you probably don't WANT your instructor going hard back against you.

Well put!

One has to consider, depending on the difference in ranks/ability the higher rank is not going all out, so if you hit too hard...well....you might get it back hard!

 

[Manny]

You must show respect. When I'm sparring with the kids (some are 6 feet tall and 200 punds) I always told them this: We don't have to kill each other, if you sparr viciusly I will do it too, if you sparr the correct way I will do the same to you, show respect for the other fighter and the other fighter will show you respect.

Sparring with instructors and samboknims is a good way to improve our skills, use combinations, punches and kicks also good blocking but cover yourself too.

In the last examn I did, the other blak belt ask me: Manny we don't have to hurt each other in the examn so how's gona be (sparring)??, I told him: Let's fight right, trying to score points, this is an examn not a tournament or for life, so try to do your best in a polite way.

I got good kicks I was so slow but landed a very powerfull side kick that stumbled and droped my oponent, inmediately I gave him a hand and helped him to stand up, he just laughed and bowed at me.

Inside the dojan there must be honor and respect always.

Manny

 

[morph4me]

In most dojo's I've ever been in and in talking to instructors, the rule of thumb seems to be that the lower rank sets the pace. The instuctor will push you if you're slacking off, and tap you to let you know where you are vulnerable, but the lower rank sets the pace in most case, but as it was pointed out already

You should spar with 100% effort, but not necessarily 100% power

.

 

[JWLuiza]

and now for something competely different.........

My answer is the opposite.

The lower belt should fight UP to the higher belt and the higher belt should fight down.

I'll have to agree completely here. There is always a fright factor fighting a much senior student/instructor, so you should up your game. At the same time, the upper belt should fight down to allow the underbelt to learn.

Why? the higher belt in theory should be able to pound the lower belt, doing so teaches the upper belt nothing, holding back,, controlling his power DOES teach the upper belt something. When I spar with lower belts, i fight them as if they were one belt higher than they are wearing.

Bingo.

When fighting UP, the lower belt should amp it up. Try to fight on the upper belts level. This teaches him to improve his technique and speed.

they should also fight SMART. If they can't fight at that level, how can they fight the best fight possible. This is how you teach a student to adjust to opponents.

But, a word of warning, NEVER kick your instructor in the groin. Back things happen. Many deaths.................. LOL

Duh.

oh, one exception, Brown belts? i pound Brown belts. They are after all trying to join a very exclusive club. They need to EARN it. Plus Brown Belts are always cocky. They need the humility.

I'll ignore the hyperbole here and focus on your main point. Your approach is probably why 1st Gup/Kyu students are always the most dangerous groups at Tourneys. They are trying to prove something. I think the best way to fight them is Cleanly and Safely. Allow them to learn. IF they get cocky (not ALL are, but yes there are many) then you DOMINATE. But when you do so, you shouldn't sink to their level of aggressive/out of control fighting. Clean Technique devoid of retribution is the best learning tool to wake up a deluded underbelt.

 

[Deaf Smith]

If the instuctor says light contact, then do light contact. If they say no contact, then do so. I doubt the instructor would say full contact, but if he did, well do as he says.

As for showing up the instructor. If he is any kind of instructor he (or she) should be able to keep a handle on things. If you get a bit rough, he will tell you to slow down. But don't TRY to belt him! I mean get pissed off and start throwing in hard kicks. Keep your control. If you score and he's any kind of decent man, he will acknowlege the score.

Oh, and the instructor, since once being a white belt himself, should know you have some consearn as to what amout of speed and power to use.

Deaf

 

[Kacey]

In most dojo's I've ever been in and in talking to instructors, the rule of thumb seems to be that the lower rank sets the pace. The instuctor will push you if you're slacking off, and tap you to let you know where you are vulnerable, but the lower rank sets the pace in most case, but as it was pointed out already .

This is the rule I follow as well. The junior always sets the pace of the fight in class (tournaments are different). So hit him as hard as you are willing to be hit back.

As far as him not wearing pads - we don't wear pads in class half the time either; at some point, you have to learn how to throw full speed and full power, with focus (so you hit the point you want to hit, while it is moving) - or you won't be able to do so when you need to. After all, if you ever have to defend yourself, you won't be wearing pads - and you need to know how to hit someone. Focus means you can hit an inch away, touch the surface, or hit an inch (or more) deep - but if you always practice with pads, you won't know how to focus without them; you will teach yourself to correct for the thickness of the pads. Thus, we spar without pads as often as we spar with them.

 

[Brad Dunne]

As you have stated, "still being new", if you attempt to go harder than what your body is ready or conditioned to do, you can and most likely will cause an injury to yourself. Aside from that aspect, the instructor, at least in my case, may have his/her head on rotation mode, in order to keep a somewhat watchful eye on the rest of the class. Both elements, being new, so your technique is questionable and the head moving around, can and has led to some less than fun moments.

 

[cbjr5]

I want to thank everyone for their advise. It is all very helpfull.

 

[dleeret]

My very first sparring match as a white belt was against a second Dan that is my age but about 75 pounds heavier (I'm 150 soaking wet). He kept telling me to not come straight in but to turn side up. After he told me this three times, rather than showing me gently why not to do this, he threw a full power cut-kick and I literally was airborn. I landed HARD and couldn't breath for a few seconds. I was like WHOA - this sparring thing sucks. It wasn't until the next time I sparred that I realized the guy was out of line. I never even got a kick in...

 

[JWLuiza]

Yes, out of line. Very undeserving of his rank.

 

[Twin Fist]

yeah, he was out of line

BUT

I bet you wont ever charge in like that again.

 

[StuartA]

Interesting thread and as both a student and an instructor myself I actually have 2 points of view.

With my own instructor, though he encourages me to go in, something holds me back.. I mean, hes pretty handy himself, but I have been training long enough to give it a good go, sometimes to even get the better of him, but something inside me wont let me. In fact, when hes really pushing me forwards and I land a hard kick I actually feel guilty.. I think it simply down to respecting him and although I know it doesnt make him look bad, other studnets may take it the wrong way and make more of it than it is.

Now, when I spar my own students I encourage them to go full out, I see my job as an instructor to make my students better than me.. if Im feeling "off" Ill say so, if not then its a free reign. There is a respectable level of control between myself and senior grades, but its a contact thing, as opposed to speed or landing techniques.. I dont mind taking a hit (I dont like it but it makes me know Im doing something right), but I have to be able to continue teaching my class. However, this kind of thinking took a while to foster.. probibly because of the point I made above with my own instructor.

Junior grade students will exercise control with me.. not because Im worried, but because they have to learn it for sparring with other students and it needs to be taught/shown.

No senior grade is ever allowed to go full out on a lower grade, regular sparring in the adults is light to medium contact (black belts are allowed to ramp it up, but by mutal consent between them). Traditional sparring again is light/medium unless otherwise agreed (which it frequently is and ends up heavy - not full - contact).

A senior grade is there (when sparring) to help the lower grades get better and as they do, they present a better challenge to the seniors and thus everyone benefits. I often refer to a sparring as a training tool/equipment.. one of many shapes, sizes, speeds and tactics.. thus if you damage the equipement you have on less piece to train with to help you improve.. which is silly!

Oh.. and yes, that 2nd dan was really really out of order.. that use to happen in the old days and is a far from prouctive way for the average student to learn.. the lerning curve is steep when the whole class is like that (I know as thats how it was when I started as a white belt)

Stuart