Sonnal Makki

[bluekey88]

I think an important point is that the basic mechanics in the form are basic mechanics and can be interpreted in many ways.

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My thought is more like in music, a scale is a scale, an interval is an interval, a chord is a chord, etc... the interpretation of those particular basic concepts, their use and application, is open to a wide range of possibilities, based on the given artist. None of them is particularly wrong, some may seem more appropriate to a given listener.


snip

I think what's important is that you "know" what you are doing in the sense that you visualize your opponent when you are doing the technique and can explain why and what it's for. If you are willing to do that and to keep your mind open and allow yourself to keep working through the possibilities, then perhaps over time you w ill realize that maybe your technique is not so effective as you thought for that attack... or you may come up with a better rationale... or you may find that it really works.

But for yourself I think it's important to not get stuck in a mode where "this technique is for this attack/situation and that's it". Keep yourself open

That is an excellent analogy!

I think that sums up things rather nicely.

Peace,
Erik

 

[YoungMan]

Is that fact or opinion, YoungMan?

What if he decides to grab you with both hands and headbutt you in the face instead of kicking you?

That's what I was told by a senior instructor. Wouldn't be difficult, though, to defend a grab from that position either.
Obviously a lot of "what ifs" come into play here.

 

[SJON]

That's what I was told by a senior instructor. Wouldn't be difficult, though, to defend a grab from that position either.
Obviously a lot of "what ifs" come into play here.

Sure. What I mean is I tend to be wary of interpretations that depend on the opponent delivering a particular technique. I agree that if the rear hand has nothing better to do then it is good practice to have it in a guard position.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Sure. What I mean is I tend to be wary of interpretations that depend on the opponent delivering a particular technique. I agree that if the rear hand has nothing better to do then it is good practice to have it in a guard position.

That's my take on it: the rear hand is in guard position, ready for either a block or strike.

I do wonder, however, why the rear hand is left in this position on the knifehand block, but it is made into a fist and pulled back during a side block.

Both are in back stances, and pulling your rear fist all the way back doesn't seem to add to the torque of the block, in my opinion. Why isn't the rear hand guarding the upperbody like the rear hand of the knifehand block?

 

[granfire]

maybe we lost something in the translation? Guard position for the free hand in Escrima is similar. So maybe it's a ready position to block and grab? Or support the other hand?

 

[BrandonLucas]

maybe we lost something in the translation? Guard position for the free hand in Escrima is similar. So maybe it's a ready position to block and grab? Or support the other hand?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the free hand is in guard position facing down. Is that correct?

If that is, then I believe that the free hand in the knifehand block is used for the same purpose...but that's just my take on it.

But, like I was saying before, I'm still not sure why this particular block has the rear hand in guard position while the other blocks have the rear hand flush against the ribcage...could be for torque purposes, I guess...but the side block doesn't make sense in that aspect.

 

[SJON]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe the free hand is in guard position facing down. Is that correct?

If that is, then I believe that the free hand in the knifehand block is used for the same purpose...but that's just my take on it.

But, like I was saying before, I'm still not sure why this particular block has the rear hand in guard position while the other blocks have the rear hand flush against the ribcage...could be for torque purposes, I guess...but the side block doesn't make sense in that aspect.

I don’t think it is a guarding hand in the knifehand block. I think the difference between the two rear hand positions is as per my earlier post. I mentioned that IF your rear hand isn’t doing something, then guarding is a reasonable enough occupation, but again, I don’t believe there are any guarding hands in this or any other movement or position shown in the patterns.

Cheers,

Simon

 

[bluekey88]

To add to that...in the position of being open, parallel to the ground, it"s not a very good gaurd.

A better gaurd would be a more "traditional" boxing type gaurd with the hand up by the cheek and the forearm and elbow covering the torso. This tells me that the hand is probably doing something else other than gaurding...why make your "go to" gaurd a lesser position without good reason to do so?

Peace,
Erik

 

[BrandonLucas]

Ok..what about this....

Would it be possible that the rear hand isn't necessarily guarding, but it's more of a setup for an attack? Like maybe a spear-hand or a groin-pull?

Setup for the spearhand can be seen in Dan-Gun, for instance.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Would it be possible that the rear hand isn't necessarily guarding, but it's more of a setup for an attack? Like maybe a spear-hand or a groin-pull?

That's actually how I'v usually thought of it, especially if you use the forward blocking hand to sweep away the attacking limb to setup/expose the strike, but I don't think of it too much.

Well, yes and no...I think about form mechanics applications a lot but over the last bit of time I've gravitated more to think less about form motions as "fighting techniques" and more thinking of them as "body mechanics training"

 

[bluekey88]

That could work. I still think the iea that the rear hand is pinning a limb to the chest to clear the way for a knife hand strike makes the most sense...but no reason that couldn't then be followed up with a thrusting strike, push or projection.

Peace,
Erik

 

[FieldDiscipline]

From a GM (no, not my association's GM) on an ITF-only board:

Try having a student grab both wrists from the front and then perform the knife hand block exactly. Let me know what happens.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Ok..what about this....

Would it be possible that the rear hand isn't necessarily guarding, but it's more of a setup for an attack? Like maybe a spear-hand or a groin-pull?

Setup for the spearhand can be seen in Dan-Gun, for instance.

This would be more my own thought as well.

Daniel

 

[igillman]

Taeguk Sa-Jang begins with a sonnal maki followed by a spear hand thrust. The sonnal maki sets up the positioning of the arms quite nicely for the thrust.

 

[YoungMan]

Palgue Sa Jang does this as well. You do a quarter turn into a double knife hand block, then step into a simultaneous palm block and spear hand strike to the abdomen.

 

[Tez3]

The rear hand is at the solar plexus palm up so that it can be used to deliver a palm block against a kick with twisting power should the need arise.

Last time I saw someone block a kick with a hand they ended up with broken fingers. The person blocking was a fourth Dan doing a technically good block, it just didn't work.

 

[YoungMan]

Against a serious student? Yeah. Against some of the people I've seen doing kicks? Wouldn't really be a problem.

 

[SJON]

The obvious question, then, is: if the application given as the primary one wouldn't work against a competent kicker, what use is such an application and what faith can you have that the instructor is giving you the real deal?

 

[Tez3]

The obvious question, then, is: if the application given as the primary one wouldn't work against a competent kicker, what use is such an application and what faith can you have that the instructor is giving you the real deal?

Exactly!!