So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Mephisto]

So if someone attacks you with a knife you know how to disarm them?

There are ways to test that and dog brothers are a good example. You still have a lot of knife and weapons guys that do nothing but compliant drills. On top of that the same camp that only does compliant knife drills does the same for empty hand and they also will down play something like mma and what it can offer. As an active member of the FMA community I see this a lot.

 

[Ironbear24]

deadly joint destructions

and weight classes, then spending 90% of the fight on the floor. It isn't close enough to reality, I don't really need to go into why being on the floor is a stupid idea in a real fight, we have heard why a billion times before. Is it good? It is good to test your mma ability but beyond that no.

Boxing is similar, is it the best way to measure self defense? No but it sure is the best way to measure how good you are at boxing.

 

[Steve]

Actually everyone here agrees the best way to find out is to actually have to use it in a life or death fight. Since we can't actually do that though legally the next best thing is sparring.

The rest of the thread devolved into semantics to be honest.

I think there's a huge difference between most reliable way and "best" way. I think that if anyone is in a life or death fight, that's a universally terrible thing.

And does everyone agree that sparring is the next best thing? Because I think that credible opinions vary on that one, too.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I think there's a huge difference between most reliable way and "best" way. I think that if anyone is in a life or death fight, that's a universally terrible thing.

And does everyone agree that sparring is the next best thing? Because I think that credible opinions vary on that one, too.

Yeah sparring can have the same arguments as any sport. Wearing gloves, rules, limits, no weapons, no multi attacks not full contact etc

 

[Ironbear24]

Yeah sparring can have the same arguments as any sport. Wearing gloves, rules, limits, no weapons, no multi attacks not full contact etc

Thats why we spar with no gear for our own personal tests.

 

[Steve]

Thats why we spar with no gear for our own personal tests.

Got to mess that sparring partner up! Screw that guy. He's looking at you funny and everything. Take the pads off and spar like it means something!

 

[Ironbear24]

Got to mess that sparring partner up! Screw that guy. He's looking at you funny and everything. Take the pads off and spar like it means something!

Lol, there is just no winning at this. We spar hard we are doing too hard. We spar light it is not real enough, we do a sport, it's a sport and not really self defense.

The moral of the story is you do you and not care what others think. Just care about what is working.

 

[Mephisto]

and weight classes, then spending 90% of the fight on the floor. It isn't close enough to reality, I don't really need to go into why being on the floor is a stupid idea in a real fight, we have heard why a billion times before. Is it good? It is good to test your mma ability but beyond that no.

Boxing is similar, is it the best way to measure self defense? No but it sure is the best way to measure how good you are at boxing.

Self defense and fighting ability are two different things. Boxing is the bes we have to measure who is the best at punching. With mma you're getting too caught up on "reality" and missing the point which is assessing fighting ability. It is much easier for an experienced mma guy who has experience groundfighting to say "okay now I'm going to do everything I can to avoid going to the ground" than it is for a guy who doesn't train groundfighting because "it's not reality." Again, you're complaining about mma which admittedly has limitations but you're not proposing an alternative. I'm sure some gyms do groundfighting and drills to avoid the ground but it's not something widely available that anyone can do.

 

[Steve]

Lol, there is just no winning at this. We spar hard we are doing too hard. We spar light it is not real enough, we do a sport, it's a sport and not really self defense.

The moral of the story is you do you and not care what others think. Just care about what is working.

There's no winning or losing. There is only living and dying.

 

[Ironbear24]

Self defense and fighting ability are two different things. Boxing is the we have to measure who is the best at punching. With mma you're getting too caught up on "reality" and missing the point which is assessing fighting ability. It is much easier for an experienced mma guy who has experience groundfighting to say "okay now I'm going to do everything I can to avoid going to the ground" than it is for a guy who doesn't train groundfighting because "it's not reality." Again, you're complaining about mma which admittedly has limitations but you're not proposing an alternative. I'm sure some gyms to groundfighting and drills to avoid the ground but it's not something widely available that anyone can do.

I did propose an alternative many pages ago. I said self defense drills are the best. So long as they are high contact and not scripted.

 

[drop bear]

So if someone attacks you with a knife you know how to disarm them?

What if there are a hundred guys with knives?

Self defense obviously just does not work. Lets all do line dancing and eat cake.

 

[drop bear]

and you are more likely to know how to do it if you train for it specifically, this is why self defense training is better for self defense than sports training.

Not really. There are other factors.

So imagine if you and your mates wanted to do mma. And you get together and watch a heap of ufc videos and train specifically for a competition.

And you come up against a guy who hasn't seen a UFC but has trained quality striking and wrestling.

You will probably loose.

 

[Ironbear24]

Not really. There are other factors.

So imagine if you and your mates wanted to do mma. And you get together and watch a heap of ufc videos and train specifically for a competition.

And you come up against a guy who hasn't seen a UFC but has trained quality striking and wrestling.

You will probably loose.

I hang loose.

 

[Ironbear24]

What if there are a hundred guys with knives?

Self defense obviously just does not work. Lets all do line dancing and eat cake.

Red herring fallacy.

 

[Steve]

Red herring fallacy.

KC and the Sunshine Band.

 

[drop bear]

Red herring fallacy.

Well yeah. "But does it work with against a knife" always is.

I just thought that it was a more entertaining way of putting it. like those duchebags who carry a concealed trainer into BJJ clas so they can have that "Ahah" moment.

I mean I could ring up a knife defence school. give them a days notice. Wave it at them from across the room and still probably pretend shank them with a trainer. That is just the advantage a knife has.

 

[drop bear]

I hang loose.

Mate I get punched in the head for a hobby.

Dont expect Shakespeare.

 

[Ironbear24]

Well yeah. "But does it work with against a knife" always is.

I just thought that it was a more entertaining way of putting it. like those duchebags who carry a concealed trainer into BJJ clas so they can have that "Ahah" moment.

I mean I could ring up a knife defence school. give them a days notice. Wave it at them from across the room and still probably pretend shank them with a trainer. That is just the advantage a knife has.

Thats the thing though, it isn't a red herring because when you say self defense. Getting attacked with a knife is a very realistic situation that can happen which is why I brought it up. MMA does not account for knife defense or any sort of weapon defense because they don't need to worry about it there.

When it comes to MMA training that to be better at it.

When it comes to self defense train specifically self defense to be better at it. It is not complicated.

 

[drop bear]

Thats the thing though, it isn't a red herring because when you say self defense. Getting attacked with a knife is a very realistic situation that can happen which is why I brought it up. MMA does not account for knife defense or any sort of weapon defense because they don't need to worry about it there.

When it comes to MMA training that to be better at it.

When it comes to self defense train specifically self defense to be better at it. It is not complicated.

But getting attacked by a bunch of guys with knives isnt realistic? And self defence training does not account for multiple attackers with knives.

So self defence training makes no difference to not training at all. Because it does not address a hundred people with knives.


Actually you know what just back the truck up right there with your MMA does not address knives.

I have used MMA to address knives. And that is all the evidence anybody else ever needed to justify their stuff. Hell that is the mainstay of self defence training evidence.

 

[Ironbear24]

But getting attacked by a bunch of guys with knives isnt realistic? And self defence training does not account for multiple attackers with knives.

So self defence training makes no difference to not training at all. Because it does not address a hundred people with knives.


Actually you know what just back the truck up right there with your MMA does not address knives.

I have used MMA to address knives. And that is all the evidence anybody else ever needed to justify their stuff. Hell that is the mainstay of self defence training evidence.

You are once again being obtuse. Self defense training addresses what people will commonly attack you with. It won't be common for multiple people to each have a knife and attack you.

I will not question whether you have or not used MMA to deal with a knife, but I will ask you what does MMA normally do about knife? What training does MMA offer for knife defense?