So what's a better "test" for martial arts other than MMA?

[Juany118]

You kind of need to engage in something tough though.

Which is the point.

But you can build it, like anything, overtime. Now military training is designed to do is ASAP but there are other methods that take longer, and arguably more dedication due to the time involved, as well. Look at Tai Chi. Yeah its slow, but look at some of the stances, how deep they can be, the control, relaxation and balance needed. It is "soft" and "slow" so we don't equate them with tough but to get there, to do that you have to be tough. It's all a matter of what path you take, a fast and arguably more brutal one, or a slower and more gentle one but in the end they find themselves at the same destination, the only difference is a matter of time.

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[drop bear]

But you can build it, like anything, overtime. Now military training is designed to do is ASAP but there are other methods that take longer, and arguably more dedication due to the time involved, as well. Look at Tai Chi. Yeah its slow, but look at some of the stances, how deep they can be, the control, relaxation and balance needed. It is "soft" and "slow" so we don't equate them with tough but to get there, to do that you have to be tough. It's all a matter of what path you take, a fast and arguably more brutal one, or a slower and more gentle one but in the end they find themselves at the same destination, the only difference is a matter of time.

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And you think tai chi takes short cuts because of priorities?

 

[Juany118]

And you think tai chi takes short cuts because of priorities?

No, Tai chi is actually one of the longer paths to toughness imo. I mentioned it to illustrate the idea that there is a faster path (say training to be recon in the Army) and a slower path Tai Chi. It's not about short cuts though. Perhaps the following analogy works better.

Lifting weights to build the strength. One adds weight quickly, building the strength via eventually hitting muscle failure. The other builds strength by walking that fine line so you grow stronger but without crossing the "failure" line.

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[Steve]

There are plenty of examples where toughness alone, absent any "self defense" training has been sufficient for self defense. Maybe that should be more of an emphasis in self defense training.

 

[drop bear]

There are plenty of examples where toughness alone, absent any "self defense" training has been sufficient for self defense. Maybe that should be more of an emphasis in self defense training.

Also reflected in sport success.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Cars don't kill people; people kill people.

Oh yeah?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There are plenty of examples where toughness alone, absent any "self defense" training has been sufficient for self defense. Maybe that should be more of an emphasis in self defense training.

This is why many MA schools have times they push hard. The Japanese concept is "shugyo", which I interpret as learning through struggle. Hard work - pushing past limits - changes us.


Gerry Seymour
Shojin-Ryu, Nihon Goshin Aikido

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Also reflected in sport success.

Agreed. It's why many of us frequently hated our favorite coaches.


Gerry Seymour
Shojin-Ryu, Nihon Goshin Aikido

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Oh yeah?

Well played, sir.


Gerry Seymour
Shojin-Ryu, Nihon Goshin Aikido

 

[Balrog]

I keep hearing that MMA isn't the best test for the effectiveness of MA styles. So what's a better test outside of putting on a costume and becoming a vigilante with a death wish? Just curious.

And btw, there's varying rulesets for MMA, so if you feel that some of the UFC rules are restrictive, there are other fight circuits where they have even less rules.

I'm a late arrival to this thread. My $0.02 worth:

The best test for the effectiveness of your style is how you feel about training in it. Nothing else matters.

 

[Steve]

I'm a late arrival to this thread. My $0.02 worth:

The best test for the effectiveness of your style is how you feel about training in it. Nothing else matters.

That's crazy. Of ciurse the Millennials I supervise would love it if I appraised them based on how they feel. Lol.

 

[Steve]

This is why many MA schools have times they push hard. The Japanese concept is "shugyo", which I interpret as learning through struggle. Hard work - pushing past limits - changes us.


Gerry Seymour
Shojin-Ryu, Nihon Goshin Aikido

Resilience is a trait we haven't really done a very good job of instilling in this current crop of young adults. Not to say they won't learn it, but it's not something many young people are entering the work force exhibit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Resilience is a trait we haven't really done a very good job of instilling in this current crop of young adults. Not to say they won't learn it, but it's not something many young people are entering the work force exhibit.

I think in a work setting, we run into the fact that so many of them have been told they are smart, over and over. Psychological studies have shown that people who are praised for their intelligence are likely to quit or avoid a difficult task earlier than those praised for their hard work.

 

[Juany118]

Resilience is a trait we haven't really done a very good job of instilling in this current crop of young adults. Not to say they won't learn it, but it's not something many young people are entering the work force exhibit.

What I love is the reaction of my friends that are Millenials. I watched an interesting evolution. It started with "that's BS that we are less resilient" then the studies came out, especially the ones about University Counselling budgets going through the roof and the new studies by Child Psychologists about participation awards started coming out. So now some have actually started to say "well if that's true it's the Baby Boomers fault not ours!!!"

 

[drop bear]

I'm a late arrival to this thread. My $0.02 worth:

The best test for the effectiveness of your style is how you feel about training in it. Nothing else matters.

Would you use that for any other training?

 

[Steve]

What's awesome is that we now have millennials entering into management. I think that, as a generation, there are a lot of positive traits. I think we're in good hands, as they grow into leadership as a generation. But, yeah, resilience isn't one of those generational traits. I've also observed that, on the whole, it's challenging to get them to work independently. Everything is a group project. Also, they tend to overstate the good things as a way to avoid conflict. The meeting wasn't good. It was AWESOME. You didn't do a good job on that presentation. You did an OUTSTANDING job on that presentation.

The lack of resilience, combined with the inclination to collaborate and the overstating of results has caused a lot of problems for them as they begin to manage performance in others.

We are doing things a little different with our youngest. The rule is, she has to do something that's hard every day. On a practical level, we aren't making her do things differently from her older siblings. But the narrative is different. When she does her homework and says, "This is hard." Our response is, "Good. When you figure it out, let me know."

 

[Steve]

Would you use that for any other training?

I feel like it wouldn't work very well, and how I feel is all that matters.

 

[drop bear]

What's awesome is that we now have millennials entering into management. I think that, as a generation, there are a lot of positive traits. I think we're in good hands, as they grow into leadership as a generation. But, yeah, resilience isn't one of those generational traits. I've also observed that, on the whole, it's challenging to get them to work independently. Everything is a group project. Also, they tend to overstate the good things as a way to avoid conflict. The meeting wasn't good. It was AWESOME. You didn't do a good job on that presentation. You did an OUTSTANDING job on that presentation.

The lack of resilience, combined with the inclination to collaborate and the overstating of results has caused a lot of problems for them as they begin to manage performance in others.

We are doing things a little different with our youngest. The rule is, she has to do something that's hard every day. On a practical level, we aren't making her do things differently from her older siblings. But the narrative is different. When she does her homework and says, "This is hard." Our response is, "Good. When you figure it out, let me know."

Where i am at the moment is still pretty much rural. So you don't really get a choice.

I trained with a 16 year old boxer who had already had 30fights.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

What's awesome is that we now have millennials entering into management. I think that, as a generation, there are a lot of positive traits. I think we're in good hands, as they grow into leadership as a generation. But, yeah, resilience isn't one of those generational traits. I've also observed that, on the whole, it's challenging to get them to work independently. Everything is a group project. Also, they tend to overstate the good things as a way to avoid conflict. The meeting wasn't good. It was AWESOME. You didn't do a good job on that presentation. You did an OUTSTANDING job on that presentation.

The lack of resilience, combined with the inclination to collaborate and the overstating of results has caused a lot of problems for them as they begin to manage performance in others.

We are doing things a little different with our youngest. The rule is, she has to do something that's hard every day. On a practical level, we aren't making her do things differently from her older siblings. But the narrative is different. When she does her homework and says, "This is hard." Our response is, "Good. When you figure it out, let me know."

I learned recently that part of an update to Marine training, a drill sergeant was specifically praising them for doing what was hard for them (including praising the quiet ones for speaking up). A good approach, Steve.

 

[drop bear]

I learned recently that part of an update to Marine training, a drill sergeant was specifically praising them for doing what was hard for them (including praising the quiet ones for speaking up). A good approach, Steve.

speaking of creating tough and survival or fighting mentality. This is a method the army uses.