Small surface strikes

[MatsumuraKarate]

Who practices small surface strikes? By this I am referring to toe kicks, nukite(fingertips) boshiken(thumb knuckle strikes), hiraken(half fist or tiger paw) and shoken(one knuckle strike). What emphasis do you place on their importance in combat?

I personally place a great deal of emphasis on them. To me they are very well suited to stopping a violent attack.

 

[DaveB]

In kata I view nukite as code for a small surface strike of your choice. Using that logic, their place in Shotokan kata indicate that they are for use in close quarters where there's less space to accelerate a fist and thus less power with which to hurt the opponent or harm yourself.

My kung fu training added to this with the idea of using such techniques from tactile contact and as a way to break the opponent's structure.

That bbeing said I've never bothered with finger conditioning beyond checking my wrist structure on a heavy bag occasionally.

 

[Chris Parker]

I personally place a great deal of emphasis on them. To me they are very well suited to stopping a violent attack.

How so?

 

[DaveB]

I should clarify that I don't do toe kicks or finger thrusts (from range).

 

[drop bear]

I know a guy who does toe kicks into the hip join. I couldn't make it work.

 

[MatsumuraKarate]

How so?

By conditioning my hands and feet to withstand the impact from these strikes. And also I focus a lot on the application of such techniques

I know a guy who does toe kicks into the hip join. I couldn't make it work.

The joint for the hip is one of my prime targets for toe kicks.

 

[Chris Parker]

By conditioning my hands and feet to withstand the impact from these strikes. And also I focus a lot on the application of such techniques.

Okay. We do a lot of "small surface" striking as well… but it's one of the last things I'd give as a good "fight ender". There are myriad issues, not least of all being the precision required to apply such strikes, as well as the need for quite a fair amount of conditioning to use them effectively (that we do as well, for the record), so I was wondering as to your reasons.

 

[MatsumuraKarate]

Okay. We do a lot of "small surface" striking as well… but it's one of the last things I'd give as a good "fight ender". There are myriad issues, not least of all being the precision required to apply such strikes, as well as the need for quite a fair amount of conditioning to use them effectively (that we do as well, for the record), so I was wondering as to your reasons.

Delivering a strike to a small area, typically a nerve or other fragile area of the body, to me is Kore effective than a punch or kick. If your targets of interest are soft than it shouldn't take the crazy amount of conditioning one would think. We do focus on knees AMD elbows as well, but I personally like small surface strikes to nerves and such

 

[hoshin1600]

For the most part these are strikes are the hammer and saw of my tool box. I understand the use of the term small surface but it might sometimes be misleading, in that the striking target is small. The human body is the target. The only target I personally would avoid with this type of strike would be the skull. I will admit it does take alot of time to develop these strikes. Since many people here love to always revert back to MMA based opinions, I would like to point out that I have found this type of strike very effective while in a bottom position. You can use the strike without the full range of motion or standing base needed for a standard punching.

 

[MatsumuraKarate]

For the most part these are strikes are the hammer and saw of my tool box. I understand the use of the term small surface but it might sometimes be misleading, in that the striking target is small. The human body is the target. The only target I personally would avoid with this type of strike would be the skull. I will admit it does take alot of time to develop these strikes. Since many people here love to always revert back to MMA based opinions, I would like to point out that I have found this type of strike very effective while in a bottom position. You can use the strike without the full range of motion or standing base needed for a standard punching.

Agreed. My opinions are based on actual combat effectiveness. I don't care about the competition opinions. I care about defending my life in a no rule environment. Biting, gouging, tearing, nerve strikes, and joint attacks are my focuses. I will be the one who walks away.

 

[Tez3]

I care about defending my life in a no rule environment.

Are you often in these places?

 

[MatsumuraKarate]

Are you often in these places?

Anytime you are threatened by an attacker, it becomes a no rules situation. When it comes down to me making it home to my family or them to theirs, I will do whatever necessary to make sure I walk away. If your training differs I suggest you find a hobby other than a combat art. Karate is not about trophies or medals, its about the science of unarmed combat.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Anytime you are threatened by an attacker, it becomes a no rules situation. When it comes down to me making it home to my family or them to theirs, I will do whatever necessary to make sure I walk away. If your training differs I suggest you find a hobby other than a combat art. Karate is not about trophies or medals, its about the science of unarmed combat.

That's a great theory, makes great memes, and sounds all macho.

It's also ********.

I get threatened all the time. It's been less than 24 hours since a tweaker took a swing at me.
But you know, there were still rules. Had I killed them in retaliation, I'd likely be sitting in jail, instead of at home, looking forward to the release of the latest season of The Big Bang Theory on DVD.

 

[MatsumuraKarate]

That's a great theory, makes great memes, and sounds all macho.

It's also ********.

I get threatened all the time. It's been less than 24 hours since a tweaker took a swing at me.
But you know, there were still rules. Had I killed them in retaliation, I'd likely be sitting in jail, instead of at home, looking forward to the release of the latest season of The Big Bang Theory on DVD.

Someone taking a swing at you is not a your life or theirs situation. My reaction to violence will be measured by the violence used against me. Taking a swing will get you knocked out, pulling a knife will put me in a position to where I must finish you before you can me. If that requires me to kill the attacker then I am prepared for that. May sound like Macho crap, but I don't care. I train for combat. I train to survive violence through violence

 

[donald1]

I've seen some in goju ryu. In seisan uses finger strikes.
And in white crane matsumura no hakutsuru sho; uses toe kicks. (I think i spelled the name correctly but i could be wrong) Personally I wouldnt use toe kicks much though if I were to use toe kick it would most likley be used on instep of leg.
As for half fist I know ive seen that in goju ryu form but cannot remember name.

These are not strikes I would use often but can be used effectively, good question

 

[ballen0351]

Big bang theory is a great show. I'm with you DD

 

[donald1]

Someone taking a swing at you is not a your life or theirs situation. My reaction to violence will be measured by the violence used against me. Taking a swing will get you knocked out, pulling a knife will put me in a position to where I must finish you before you can me. If that requires me to kill the attacker then I am prepared for that. May sound like Macho crap, but I don't care. I train for combat. I train to survive violence through violence

I see your point but shouldnt there be more limit? By all means protect your self but knock someone unconscious for throwing a swing? The attacker started the fight but if an officer finds out what you done I dont think they will see eye to eye. (Self defense is one thing but theres a point where it becomes retaliation)
Same thing with the knife scenario. Also if you can kill the attacker wouldnt it be easier to disarm and/or restrain them instead? Nobody has to die nobody gets in possible trouble with law

 

[Dirty Dog]

Someone taking a swing at you is not a your life or theirs situation. My reaction to violence will be measured by the violence used against me. Taking a swing will get you knocked out, pulling a knife will put me in a position to where I must finish you before you can me. If that requires me to kill the attacker then I am prepared for that. May sound like Macho crap, but I don't care. I train for combat. I train to survive violence through violence

Yes, it does sound like macho crap. I didn't knock them out, either.
I've had people pull knives on me at work, too. Didn't kill either of them.



Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

 

[Tez3]

Anytime you are threatened by an attacker, it becomes a no rules situation. When it comes down to me making it home to my family or them to theirs, I will do whatever necessary to make sure I walk away. If your training differs I suggest you find a hobby other than a combat art. Karate is not about trophies or medals, its about the science of unarmed combat.

So I imagine you live in Syria then or somewhere dangerous... like your imagination. When people start in martial arts and learn a couple of techniques they often imagine everyone they see is an attacker and mentally 'defend' themselves with amazing, of course, moves, in their minds they are Bruce Lee and Jason Stratham all rolled into one.
You are right though, it does sound like macho crap especially to people who deal with violence ...a lot!

 

[Danny T]

Agreed. My opinions are based on actual combat effectiveness. I don't care about the competition opinions. I care about defending my life in a no rule environment. Biting, gouging, tearing, nerve strikes, and joint attacks are my focuses. I will be the one who walks away.

...and just how much 'combat' have you been in?
People train in the martial arts for much more than combat.
Most people in the martial arts will never see combat; other than on television or in a movie.
Most people in the martial arts will never be in a fight; other than what they do in training or competition much less combat.
Be prepared for the possibility; certainly. Be a realist as well.