SKK Combos and Various Attacks

[MJS]

Many of our techniques are different than standard SKK combos, either changed to teach differnet principles or movements, or just completely replaced. (I detailed a bit of that over on Matt's kempoinfo.com)

I'm glad we don't do it one-handed what's that teach, how to fight if your left hand is choppd off LOL

Our version does indeed drive attacker backwards too. Maybe even more because we are hitting on 6-12 with both hands!

The take-aways I get from our version of #2:

• it's our first tech that addresses follow-up attacks
• learn the risks/rewards of fighting "inside"
• first tech that uses "double-tap" blocking - block&parry

rising elbow - Like I said earlier, I have used #2 as a vehicle for experimenting with the SL-4 kenpo pricniples and information I got from Doc Chapel. The SL-4 variation I practice does use the rising elbow, and is scary effective.

I have performed this tech. the way I learned it...with using just the right hand. Of course, the left hand is not hanging dead, its still checking. IMO, every tech. even the ones that I do today, which are not SKK, involve both hands. Granted one hand may do more work than the other but nonetheless, its still an active part of the tech.

Mike

 

[MJS]

The thread is about SKK techniques, you don't practice one of the original combinations. I'm not really interested in a long debate on the subject, but replacing a core technique so you can teach a "different principle or movement" leaves a hole. You don't have to sacrifice one for the other. Getting injured in a fight is a high probability, why wouldn't you practice dealing with a likely occurrence?

Yes, thats correct. I started this thread as a spin off from another, and yes, the intent was to talk about the SKK techniques against different attacks while at the same time, doing our best to keep the same ideas, concepts, principles, etc.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Lets take a look at #3. Seems like it would work well against the right punch, a rt. jab, a rt. push or 2 hand push and a lapel grab with the rt. hand. Unless I'm missing it, I'm not seeing much off of a left side attack.

 

[RevIV]

Alright, sticking with the ot, how about making #5 combo a defense against a round house kick, as you move up the circle?

Have you been watching the old Ted Tabura tapes from his Lima Lama (sorry if i spelled that wrong) from Panther productions. He does combo#5 on that tape off of a roundhouse kick. He also does the move from Sho Tan Kwa with the simotaneus Left backfist right back heal kick. Makes you wonder what else couldve come from tapes or books that are in the system.

 

[RevIV]

Lets take a look at #3. Seems like it would work well against the right punch, a rt. jab, a rt. push or 2 hand push and a lapel grab with the rt. hand. Unless I'm missing it, I'm not seeing much off of a left side attack.

Do it backwards.. Sorry, just having fun, getting ready for my long weekend and then a busy end of the month.

 

[Hand Sword]

Have you been watching the old Ted Tabura tapes from his Lima Lama (sorry if i spelled that wrong) from Panther productions. He does combo#5 on that tape off of a roundhouse kick. He also does the move from Sho Tan Kwa with the simotaneus Left backfist right back heal kick. Makes you wonder what else couldve come from tapes or books that are in the system.

Actually, I've never seen it. I was just speculating about the combos movements. The reason for all of these crossovers IMHO is because All of the material goes back to men that trained together. They all got the same techniques from which to build from. They have slight variations, but the connections are tangible.

As an example: http://www.ltatum.com/movies/Week26/TipOfTheWeekMedW25.html

Not exact, but almost identical, with slight adjustments.

 

[JTKenpo]

Alright, sticking with the ot, how about making #5 combo a defense against a round house kick, as you move up the circle?

LOve it!! as I hear in my kids favorite show dragon tails. Sorry.

I would change the block to a universal block though, easy enough just let the hands seperate more and cross your arms as if doing an x block to the side (for those who do not know what a universal block is).

Marlon, walking up the circle is a AK term. From your starting point picture a circle where the bottom or 6 oclock is at your feet and and the top or 12 oclock is directly in front of you. Walking up the circle means taking your back leg (in this case your left) and sliding it counter clockwise from 6 to say 4:30 ish.

 

[JTKenpo]

Lets take a look at #3. Seems like it would work well against the right punch, a rt. jab, a rt. push or 2 hand push and a lapel grab with the rt. hand. Unless I'm missing it, I'm not seeing much off of a left side attack.

Doing #3 off a left side is very interesting to me as this is normally an outside technique and this makes it an inside technique. The left hand now grabs the inside of the right shoulder further out then a lapel grab, and pushes back a bit to momentarily check the right hand (or you can wrap there right arm with your left). Right punch goes to groin, back punch to head (now we are at there center line, wait werent we here for #2) grab the back of the head to pull down and give the man a cement facial.

 

[Hand Sword]

LOve it!! as I hear in my kids favorite show dragon tails. Sorry.

I would change the block to a universal block though, easy enough just let the hands seperate more and cross your arms as if doing an x block to the side (for those who do not know what a universal block is).

I agree with that. I think if you parry it as opposed to blocking it, in order to pull into the back punch, your arms end up in that anyway.

 

[DavidCC]

My concerns would be

1) a roundhouse kick delivered correctly could easily damage the blocking arms... however this can be mitigated somewhat as you guys described. I wouldn't use the wrist/hand block from #5 vs roundhouse kick.

2) using 2 hands to block one leg attack is going to make it very easy to punch you in the head, especially if you block that kick, stopping its motion, the punch is automatic and your hands are busy. Parry the kick, distort the balance / spacial perception etc and the punch is not such a concern, but then how much liek 5 is this at that point?

IMHO The follw-up left punch in #5 is not such a concern because having control of the right arm, pulling it to 6, cancels the power of the left punch long enough to retaliate.

 

[JTKenpo]

My concerns would be

2) using 2 hands to block one leg attack is going to make it very easy to punch you in the head, especially if you block that kick, stopping its motion, the punch is automatic and your hands are busy. Parry the kick, distort the balance / spacial perception etc and the punch is not such a concern, but then how much liek 5 is this at that point?
quote]

In this particular case I am not worried about the follow up punch because it is after a roundhouse. In order for him to hit me with the punch he has to bring his weight off the one leg and kind of load the punch so to speak. That should give me ample time for the right back punch to the head, which again will stop the follow up and then add my own side kick. Also the back punch will be hitting him as the kicking leg comes down which will create more power due to opposing motion.

 

[Hand Sword]

My concerns would be

1) a roundhouse kick delivered correctly could easily damage the blocking arms... however this can be mitigated somewhat as you guys described. I wouldn't use the wrist/hand block from #5 vs roundhouse kick.

2) using 2 hands to block one leg attack is going to make it very easy to punch you in the head, especially if you block that kick, stopping its motion, the punch is automatic and your hands are busy. Parry the kick, distort the balance / spacial perception etc and the punch is not such a concern, but then how much liek 5 is this at that point?

IMHO The follw-up left punch in #5 is not such a concern because having control of the right arm, pulling it to 6, cancels the power of the left punch long enough to retaliate.

If you move up the circle as I described that will cover points 1 and 2. The kick loses power after it "turns the corner" and any following punch will be avoided. Also, if done like the "Intellectual departure" example (funny how identical these two techniques are hmm

), your shots will land before their kicking leg does, off balancing them.

 

[JTKenpo]

If you move up the circle as I described that will cover points 1 and 2. The kick loses power after it "turns the corner" and any following punch will be avoided. Also, if done like the "Intellectual departure" example (funny how identical these two techniques are hmm

), your shots will land before their kicking leg does, off balancing them.

Do you mean swinging pendulum? Yes I agree very similar.

 

[MJS]

Do it backwards.. Sorry, just having fun, getting ready for my long weekend and then a busy end of the month.

LOL! Hey Jesse!! Actually I was thinking about that...but, you know some people don't feel that it serves a purpose to do the techs. on the other side. For myself, I do perform them on both sides.

Have a great weekend!!

Mike

 

[Hand Sword]

Do you mean swinging pendulum? Yes I agree very similar.

That could work also as it's similar as well. The example from Mr. Tatum that I used fits with the block (your arm ends up that way), move up, back knuckle and kick.

 

[14 Kempo]

LOL! Hey Jesse!! Actually I was thinking about that...but, you know some people don't feel that it serves a purpose to do the techs. on the other side. For myself, I do perform them on both sides.

Have a great weekend!!

Mike

Both sides is far different from 'backwards' : )

 

[DavidCC]

If you move up the circle as I described that will cover points 1 and 2. The kick loses power after it "turns the corner" and any following punch will be avoided.

If we aren't concerned with the kick's power, why not just let the kick roll of the top of the thigh after moving up the circle as shown by Prof. Cerio in his Kenpo Hands tape?

also

not sure how all punches could be avoided by this footwork?

 

[Hand Sword]

I'd rather not just let a kick hit me in the leg, but, it can just roll off w/o damage. The arms are used as a guide to draw into your shots. As for the footwork, coming off a round kick, wher you're at and how they land (remember too, your shot hits them before or at the moment of their landing, as they parry off you.) They are squared with you. Not a good position to throw a shot.

 

[Hand Sword]

I'd rather not just let a kick hit me in the leg, but, it can just roll off w/o damage. The arms are used as a guide to draw into your shots. As for the footwork, coming off a round kick, wher you're at and how they land (remember too, your shot hits them before or at the moment of their landing, as they parry off you.) They are squared with you. Not a good position to throw a shot.

The arms parry also off balances them by stretching them out after the kick. Trying to maintain or re-establish their balance will overide their trying to throw a punch. Added to that, your own shots, you'll be alright.

 

[MJS]

Have you been watching the old Ted Tabura tapes from his Lima Lama (sorry if i spelled that wrong) from Panther productions. He does combo#5 on that tape off of a roundhouse kick. He also does the move from Sho Tan Kwa with the simotaneus Left backfist right back heal kick. Makes you wonder what else couldve come from tapes or books that are in the system.

Could you explain this in more detail? I'm having a hard time picturing #5 used against a roundhouse kick, unless the initial block is changed. IMO, I wouldn't want to use the block that is used for a punch against a kick.

Mike