Siu Nim Tao - Correcting Symmetry?

[geezer]

- Will you get exactly the same training result for your centerline, structure, relaxation, energy, stance, rooting, etc etc?
- Is there any reason that you have to follow the original order?
- If you break your Siu Nim Tao form apart, re-arrange the sequences, do you think you will understand the Siu Nim Tao form better afterward?

IMO, the original form creator doesn't care whether you break it apart, or re-arrange the sequences. After you have learned it, it's your form and you should have freedom to do whatever that you want to.

Sure, often the best way to train any of the forms is to take a small section and drill it over and over. Then you can work two-man drills based on those movements, and finally apply them appropriately in random contexts such as chi-sau and sparring.

On the other hand, the order of the movements in the form is not random at all. Many sequences are arranged quite logically. And I doubt whether a student would grasp the underlying concepts any faster by simply scrambling the order.

 

[Eric_H]

Hello all, thanks a ton for the advice you've given so far. I have talked to my Sifu and he has explained a few useful things. However, I still would like to get more opinions (if we don't learn from each other, who will we learn from?) so I've finally gotten around to uploading that video of me doing SNT that you can see my symmetry problem in as well as a few other things:

Please note that I realize I shouldn't have had a jacket on and I apologize for the camera being out of focus as I was very short on time when I recorded this. Hope to receive some more advice!

The hell lineage is this? I don't even recongize that opening as WC!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Marnetmar

I am not a Wing Chun guy, although I have dabbled in it and I apologize if this has already been mentioned but I noticed something as it applies to symmetry, of course it could be the camera angle too.

From my perspective when you get into your stance your right leg does not go as far off center as your left. From your perspective it would be your left leg does not go as far from center as your right.


Your right foot>>>>>>>Center<<<<<Your left foot

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Marnetmar, about opening the form, as I remember:

the feet are together
the hands rise up in fists at the sides, and they stay there. At the same time, the knees bend so you can open into the horse
then you move the feet out, opening the stance

the hands are still in fists as you open the stance. You are NOT simultaneously moving the arms and legs.
I really believe most of the Yip Man lineage Wing Chun players on this forum open SNT that way.
Here is the example Geezer gave us:

Opening the stance while moving the arms is confusing, doing two things at once. We do not want confused kung fu! (LOL)
Wing Chun, at the SNT level, is all about segmenting and isolating specific bodily actions, and repeating them to perfection.
Later on things can flow into each other.

 

[Marnetmar]

The hell lineage is this? I don't even recongize that opening as WC!

Leung Sheung/Kenneth Chung, so some of the stuff we do does differ from the classical Yip Man lineage. The reason it doesn't look like Wing Chun is most likely because my structure was way off and I am very much a novice, rather than our method of the form itself, which is why I made this thread. (As you mentioned, in the opening we sink our weight and we fold our cross-arms inward and up, which you don't see often in Wing Chun)

My instructor learned from Eddie Chong in the early 90's, and he learned from Kenneth Chung who learned from Leung Sheung.

 

[Marnetmar]

Hello all, little update. I'm doing better but I still look like I'm half-retarded:

 

[mook jong man]

Not the worst I've seen , but it does need a bit of work by the looks of it.
Let's start from the ground up , allowing differences in lineage and what not.

Your stance is too wide making it almost impossible for you to kick without a rather large weight shift , it will also hamper your mobility and I dare say it is probably putting quite a bit of strain on your knee joints.

Try measuring out your stance from the starting point of having your feet together , you should then end up with the feet roughly shoulder width apart which is about where you want them.
Make sure you sink your weight down as well , so that your weight is evenly distributed over your feet , looking down and seeing your knees just over your toes is about right.

As for the movements of the form you need to go right back to the beginning and if I were you I would just work on the first section before moving on to the the others , the form is divided into three sections.

You need to slow it right down and make sure each move is completed fully before you start the next movement , practice in front of a mirror and make sure you are keeping your wrist on the centerline , stick a line of tape or something down on the mirror if you have to , but keep those wrists on the centerline.

Concentrate on initiating each movement from your elbow , and keeping your elbows tucked in when the technique requires it .
Try to also maintain your angles in your arm , particularly when raising from low to high and cutting down , there are slight variations of angle in the elbow joint in the form in certain sequences but not as wildly fluctuating as you are doing.

The Fook Sau , Wu Sau sequence should also be going out and back in a straight line your's looks like it is going up.
Also with your Huen Sau make sure you keep your hand flat all the way round as you rotate the wrist , otherwise it won't work when you want to use it to snake around someones arm to get on the inside and hit them

Don't worry too much it's not insurmountable , nothing that a bit of hard work won't fix , just means a lot of time standing in front of the mirror going through each move of the form and doing it over and over and over and over and over...............

 

[Marnetmar]

Thank you so much, I'll be sure to take every bit of advice you've given me!

 

[mook jong man]

Thank you so much, I'll be sure to take every bit of advice you've given me!

No worries , that's what we are here for.

Just remember though , that you should do it the way your particular lineage dictates that you should do it
But there are still some things that are probably universal across all lineages , things like keeping your elbow in , maintaining the proper angle of the arm through out the movement , and keeping the wrists on the centerline etc.

Don't worry about it , I still have to get in front of the mirror every now and again for a bit of a tune up and make sure everthing is staying on center.

You might be able to pick up a few things from this video clip , as far as my lineage goes this guy is probably right up there , his relaxed and precise execution of our version of SNT is excellent.

[video=youtube_share;9SDT-UvWlms]http://youtu.be/9SDT-UvWlms[/video]

 

[strike101]

No worries , that's what we are here for.

Just remember though , that you should do it the way your particular lineage dictates that you should do it
But there are still some things that are probably universal across all lineages , things like keeping your elbow in , maintaining the proper angle of the arm through out the movement , and keeping the wrists on the centerline etc.

Don't worry about it , I still have to get in front of the mirror every now and again for a bit of a tune up and make sure everthing is staying on center.

You might be able to pick up a few things from this video clip , as far as my lineage goes this guy is probably right up there , his relaxed and precise execution of our version of SNT is excellent.

[video=youtube_share;9SDT-UvWlms]http://youtu.be/9SDT-UvWlms[/video]

Nice SLT video. Similar to how we perform it.

 

[wingchun100]

I have to agree with Geezer. SLT is the alphabet in that it teaches the centerline, the bulk of the hand techniques and develops your basic stance. The best advice is to practice in front of a mirror. There are no shortcuts, no magic bullets, no easy answers. Just practice.