Sifu is using cell phone a lot during class - advice needed.

[kez]

I started at a new Kung Fu school in my city 3 weeks ago having previously trained in another city for 1.5 years.

I like my new class and the students, it is also very convenient for me. Our Sifu is also knowledgeable and experienced.

However, during class I have noticed he spends sometimes as much as 80 % of the time sitting on a chair just playing with his phone (looking at photos, emails etc) this is not just replying to the occasional text or even taking a call - this is eyes down, getting up just every 15 minutes to introduce a new technique or progression to practice.

I feel that this is disrespectful to the students who have come and paid money to learn Kung Fu. There are other senior and instructor grade students in the class but as they are also engaged in doing the exercises there usually isn't anyone walking around to offer feedback, advice or correct student's technique.

I feel that this is something that effects every student in the class, so I would like there to be a way I could bring it up with sifu without causing offence or making me seem like I am telling him how to run his class - I have after all, only been to a handful of lessons so far, and he has been teaching for about 30 years.

Any advice on how to do this?

I would particularly be interested to hear from any martial arts teachers on the forum.

Thanks, Kez

 

[Blindside]

You deserve quality instruction, if he isn't providing it, then he should be addressed. A martial arts teacher isn't some mystical "master," he is a guy with some knowledge you don't have, you have become his student to learn that knowledge. Ask him politely to provide additional instruction and that your expectations of an instructor are that he oversees his class to give good feedback on what he is teaching.

Honestly I suspect this instructor will take it poorly, it doesn't sound like he cares. Go find a place that will provide good instruction to a paying clientele, you deserve better than a half-assed instructor who can't be bothered to take care of the students that he is supposed to be passing his art onto.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Respect is a two-way street. I'd find somebody who cares.

 

[pgsmith]

I agree. THe best way to deal with something like this is to vote with your feet.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Surprise surprise but I am going to offer a different suggestion:

Like it or leave it. He IS the instructor and maybe this is the way he teaches. Your expectations of how he should teach are great but just your opinion and mean little outside of your own experience. Whatever amount you pay him means nothing as well. You are paying for the opportunity to learn from this person, you are not buying the person's time nor the ability to dictate what he does in that time.

You are not buying friendship either, although many mistake this as part of the deal. He is there to teach you an art that he knows and you don't - how is it that you (the one without knowledge) have any idea how he (the one with knowledge) should go about teaching you what you do not already know?

You wrote, "I like my new class and the students, it is also very convenient for me. Our Sifu is also knowledgeable and experienced" so your problem is then that you think he should be doing something different in how he handles his business...?

I have taught for a long time. His method is not what I personally care for and I do not teach the way he does. However, some of the BEST instructors I have ever had taught this way and still do.

There is an old Chinese saying that goes like this, "When the student is ready the teacher appears."


Jason Brinn

 

[Xue Sheng]

There is an old Chinese saying that goes like this, "When the student is ready the teacher appears."

With or without a cell phone

 

[jasonbrinn]

With or without a cell phone

The lack of punctuation here leaves me to believe that you mean this as a statement of agreement. Yes, a teacher can teach with or without a cell phone.

If, however, you meant this to be a question instead I would say that a great teacher is not hindered by it either way.


"One who is bound by desire, can only see that which is held in his instructor's hand." Jason Brinn

 

[harlan]

And you are...???

Just pointing out that cell phone or not, as a beginner in some schools, you can expect to be completely neglected. Personally, I'd seek out instruction with the best student/sempai that will take pity on you.

 

[jasonbrinn]

Just posted this somewhere else and then it struck....is that a cell phone in Miyagi's hand? No that's a fishing rod never mind!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Just posted this somewhere else and then it struck....is that a cell phone in Miyagi's hand? No that's a fishing rod never mind!

I'm sorry, I thought the discussion was about a real school, not a movie.

You're paying to be trained. If you're not being trained, you're not getting what you're paying for. It's that simple.

 

[Xue Sheng]

The lack of punctuation here leaves me to believe that you mean this as a statement of agreement. Yes, a teacher can teach with or without a cell phone.

If, however, you meant this to be a question instead I would say that a great teacher is not hindered by it either way.


"One who is bound by desire, can only see that which is held in his instructor's hand." Jason Brinn

Sorry. my mistake

With or without a cell phone?

I have had a few great teachers and meant a few more (real live not on a video) and they always paid attention to the class. That does not mean they were looking at it or even appeared to be watching but they were. But they never were playing with a smart phone, doodling on a pad, reading a book or any other thing that appeared to be rather distracting. A great teacher pays attention to what is going on in his or her class...they do not play games on a cell phone, smart phone or any other thing that truly takes their mind off of their class.

I have however seen a few, let’s say not so great, leave all the instruction to their "senior students" while they go off and do something else.

When I teach I pay attention, when I learn I pay attention too, I even turn off my cell phone.

Now if the teacher in question jumps up when someone is doing something very wrong and corrects it then he is paying attention but if he/she sits there playing cell phone games while things go south then he/she is not paying attention and I am pretty sure it is the later in this case

 

[jasonbrinn]

Well there you have it. I guess that settles it. Only the great instructors teach the way Xue Sheng has posted.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Just posted this somewhere else and then it struck....is that a cell phone in Miyagi's hand? No that's a fishing rod never mind!

A movie as proof to back up to your post :lfao:

But lets take that example.. Miyagi is fishing and how many other distractions are there? And is sitting and fishing, in a boat, on a calm day, where he can feel every movement the same as sitting in a chair playing on your cell phone....no, I don't think so

 

[Xue Sheng]

Well there you have it. I guess that settles it. Only the great instructors teach the way Xue Sheng has posted.

There you have it, once again when someone does not agree with Jason he resorts to personal attacks.


Besides Jason many others on this page have trained with great instructors…you however I am not so sure


And those that are on MT that have trained with great instructors so far seem to think the cell phone thing is not appropriate and/or have never seen it.

So I am guessing I am not the only one who thinks the way I do about it...

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'm constantly engaged or observing students during class. It is my responsibility to them. If I am not aware of what they're doing, I can not correct mistakes. If I do not correct mistakes, it could cost them much if forced to use what I've taught for self defense.

As an instructor, you have some responsibility for the safety and performance of your students. Especially in terms of self-defense. If they get their tails kicked...or worse...you share the blame.

If your cell phone is more important than your students, then perhaps you're in the wrong business. It would seem you've obviously lost the passion for the arts at the very least.

Students observe you and how you behave as an instructor. You teach not only with your words and actions, but through what you don't say and your inaction as well.

 

[jasonbrinn]

It wasnt a personal attack sir.

I am only pointing out that somehow, scientifically and omnisciently you are giving the definition of standard as to what a good instructor does or does not do. I get it that it has been your experience and personal opinion that a good instructor does A B and C, but until more data is in we can not say that a good instructor does not do D.

My first response is that some of my BEST instructors acted in that way, not the movie. I thought the movie was funny. I also think the clip points out, even though it is a movie, that uneducated people looking at events only decipher them the way they can understand which usually isn't the whole picture at all.

If this guy is learning and the instructor is good then what's the problem. Plus, maybe its a test. Maybe the instructor uses this process to weed people out. Maybe the instructor doesn't care to teach actively, does this mean his knowledge is any less useful?

It is true you often pay for what you get but it can also be true that you get what you try to learn even if you have to pay for it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

It wasnt a personal attack sir.

I am only pointing out that somehow, scientifically and omnisciently you are giving the definition of standard as to what a good instructor does or does not do. I get it that it has been your experience and personal opinion that a good instructor does A B and C, but until more data is in we can not say that a good instructor does not do D.

My first response is that some of my BEST instructors acted in that way, not the movie. I thought the movie was funny. I also think the clip points out, even though it is a movie, that uneducated people looking at events only decipher them the way they can understand which usually isn't the whole picture at all.

If this guy is learning and the instructor is good then what's the problem. Plus, maybe its a test. Maybe the instructor uses this process to weed people out. Maybe the instructor doesn't care to teach actively, does this mean his knowledge is any less useful?

It is true you often pay for what you get but it can also be true that you get what you try to learn even if you have to pay for it.

So posting a picture of Jack Nicholson form a few good men in response is not a personal attack...alrighty then

Well that is enough of this, I do not want to get this post locked or make the mods have to intervien so lets just say ,as per usual, I do not agree with you

 

[Flying Crane]

There is something to be said about letting the students struggle with and work thru things that they have been taught. It's part of the learning process, and Sifu doesn't need to be there watching all the time, or even making corrections. But then at some point, yes, he needs to pay attention, make corrections, and give instruction.

We work in my Sifu's back yard. He sits in his study, watching TV with the window open so he can keep an eye on us. Often it seems he isn't watching. But then he suddenly appears with scathing criticism about what we've been doing, and he's always dead-on, it doesn't escape him. And then he gives correction and gives instruction and it's extremely valuable. But it's up to us to be responsible for our own practice.

But no, he isn't there every moment watching us like a hawk.

 

[jasonbrinn]

I understand everyone else's view, like I said - I prefer to teach the way everyone here has outlined. I just think he should get what he can when and how he can and then move on when he feels like he has learned all he can - why worry about the box?

FYI - the pic of Jack from A Few Good Men was in reference to myself - the whole speech about "don't ask me to guard a wall then question the way in which I do it" was coming to mind when I was posting. It wasn't meant for anyone other than myself.

 

[Xue Sheng]

But no, he isn't there every moment watching us like a hawk.

Based on my expereince with these old school Chinese MA teacher...yes, yes he is... we just don't know it:anic:...and that is exactly how they like it :uhyeah: