What is the proper etiquette when inviting an instructor out to lunch?

[TigerAndCrane]

Sorry if this is such a silly question, but I've never been in this type of potential student/teacher situation before so I'm not sure how to handle it.

Background: There is a kung fu school in my area, that is run by a somewhat well known Sifu. I went in person to sign up for class, and was told that they are not currently accepting new students. This was about 2 months ago. I went again last month and was told the same thing. As I was leaving the school, a lady came out into the parking lot (I assume that she's an assistant, as I saw her answering phone calls each time I went to the school). She told me that if I would invite the Sifu out to lunch, then there is a good chance he might accept me into the school as a student. So I plan to go and ask him tomorrow if he is available.

Now my question is, when I make the invitation am I supposed to let him choose the restaurant? Or do I take him to a place that I like to eat? I'm a college student and work part time, but I wouldn't try to take him to Burger King or anything, it would be a proper restaurant. And of course he might not accept the invitation anyway, but I want to know how to proceed if he does accept.

 

[Grenadier]

If the lady that you spoke with was his assistant, ask her what he likes. Then, when you get a chance, talk to the sifu about the martial arts, and at the end of the convo, ask him if he would like to go to lunch.

 

[michaeledward]

I would, perhaps, find a different school in which to study.

I doubt that the information this instructor can provide to a new student is terribly different than what you can learn down the street without having to buy the instructor dinner and beg them to take your money.

 

[MA-Caver]

Yes, I was thinking along the lines of what Michael was saying... it's almost bribing the instructor which is next to butt kissing which is next to self-debasement. Kinda makes you wonder how you'd have to treat him in the classroom and beyond that. If they're the only school in town for you or you've just got to take Kung Fu (for your own reasons) then... see if you can't pin down one or more of the students and get their impressions of the school and instructors.
To me this is old/ancient world thinking of doing favors and elaborate shows of respect just to get something they have to offer... unless your instructor has a linage that goes back (directly) to Yip Man or even Yip Sing or any of the other great Kung Fu masters ... I'd be very wary. Tell us (or at least ask those in the Kung-Fu/Chinese arts forums of MT) the instructor's name... mebbe they can tell you if he's worth kissing butt. That's what it sounds like to me what they're asking you to do.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

Hello TigerAndCrane :wavey:

Welcome to Martial Talk! I think this to be a little unusual myself, and find it to smack of bribery. I agree that an interview with a few students might give you a better impression of this instructor. It could be that he is a wonderful instructor and really need not take on any more students, or it could be his way of getting free lunches. If you have your heart set on becoming a student there, than I agree that asking your contact person's advice on a restaurant is a good idea.

I suggest that you check out some other schools as well though. :asian:

Good Luck in your decision!

MJ

 

[arnisador]

I would, perhaps, find a different school in which to study.

I doubt that the information this instructor can provide to a new student is terribly different than what you can learn down the street without having to buy the instructor dinner and beg them to take your money.

This seems like good advice. The situation described is...very unusual. But if you feel you must do this, speak with his assistant for advice if possible, then call and ask to speak with him. You may only be ableto speak woth his assistanat, which is OK. Politely invite him out to a specific restaurant on a specific date--you have to start somewhere--but indicate your willingness to be flexible.

Don't over-think it. It's a lunch appointment. It's standard business etiquette that applies.

 

[MJS]

First off, Welcome to the forum! Enjoy your stay! :ultracool

As for your question: I have to agree with Michael and MAC on this one. I'd certainly be cautious about this school, as I've never heard of a school not accepting a student unless you take the instructor out for lunch.

Good luck on your decision and let us know what you end up doing.

Mike

 

[terryl965]

Take the instructor to lunch, are you planning on dating him if not then find another school. One take's potential clients to lunch not instructors. I've been teaching for over 20 years and I never heard of this, atleast not to be a student and if anything he should take you to lunch to get you as a student.

Welcome to MT there are alot of great people here for info.
Terry Lee Stoker

 

[BaiKaiGuy]

Who is this Sifu that's he's so well-known? If we don't know who it is, it's difficult at best to say whether you should bribe him into accepting you as a student.

Overall, I agree with what's been posted. This is the most debasing aspect of CMA, you shouldn't have to beg an instructor to take your money. Have a bit of pride and find another school. If he won't accept you based on just talking to you, I personally don't think it's worth the cash to train with him.

 

[BushidoUK]

Id never expect a potential student to buy me anything

maybe a beer after training would be nice though!

Seriously, give them a miss, all taking them to lunch is gonna show is that you're willing to fork out money for nothing.

 

[masherdong]

Are you serious?? I wouldn't even invite him. That just seems like trouble. Save yourself some stress and just move on to the next school.

BTW- Welcome to MT! :wavey:

 

[Jerry]

OK. To play devil's advocate:

It's possible that there's a genuinely good instructor (and no, the school down the street may not be very good) who decided to limit his class size by limiting the number of students he accepts. When our poster goes in, he get's the official line "no places".

Well, the wife sees this same guy come in twice and feel sorry for him. She knows that, given the chance, her husband is a softie and will bend his rule, so she suggests that the guy take her husband out to lunch. Once you get him going, he gets all excited and sees you are all excited and thinks "one more wouldn't kill me" (after all, she's seen him do it before). So, trying to be helpful, she suggests this to the turned away student.

I'm speculating, but so is everyone else here.

 

[chinto01]

I know in some cases it is not uncommon for the instructor of a dojo to have a "interview" with possible new students. We have the new student come in watch a class and then talk with the school owner. To have to take the school owner out to a lunch however is a little strange to me. I do not understand why he will not take the time to sit with you after or during one of his classes. Just my opinion but this gentleman seems a little full of himself if he cannot make time for a prospective new student without them footing the bill for a meal. I have heard of forms of character testing before a teacher lets a student into his dojo but this sounds a little funny. I would keep looking around if I were you.

In the spirit of Bushido!

Rob

 

[TigerAndCrane]

I want to thank everyone for the responses. :ultracool As all of you mentioned (and correctly so), I could just as well find another school that would take me as a student. I know that taking the instructor to lunch is not a common way to get into a school, but I would really like to study under this Sifu. Out of respect to him, I don't want to mention his name (maybe after he either accepts or rejects me as a student) but he is a 3rd generation Sifu under Wong Fei Hung. I realize that to some, it might not seem like a good reason to jump through hoops, but it's a personal decision that if I can study with a Sifu (I guess he is considered a "Master" for whatever that term is worth in today's world) of his stature, then I want to take advantage of the opportunity. I'm going to call the school this afternoon and see how it goes. :idunno:

By the way, thanks for welcoming me to the forum! I've been lurking for a few days and have found many great threads here. And unlike some other forums, there seem to be less trolls here and more actual martial artists! :boing2:

 

[terryl965]

I guess I do not understand your post you ask for advice but yet you say the advise is great but still you will buy someone lunch to beg for instruction, in over 40 years of MA training I have never ever had some one buy me lunch or dinner for training or the tought of me training them. Believe I'm worth every single PorterHouse steak that is out there!!:supcool:

 

[MA-Caver]

I want to thank everyone for the responses. :ultracool As all of you mentioned (and correctly so), I could just as well find another school that would take me as a student. I know that taking the instructor to lunch is not a common way to get into a school, but I would really like to study under this Sifu. Out of respect to him, I don't want to mention his name (maybe after he either accepts or rejects me as a student) but he is a 3rd generation Sifu under Wong Fei Hung. I realize that to some, it might not seem like a good reason to jump through hoops, but it's a personal decision that if I can study with a Sifu (I guess he is considered a "Master" for whatever that term is worth in today's world) of his stature, then I want to take advantage of the opportunity. I'm going to call the school this afternoon and see how it goes. :idunno:

By the way, thanks for welcoming me to the forum! I've been lurking for a few days and have found many great threads here. And unlike some other forums, there seem to be less trolls here and more actual martial artists! :boing2:

3rd Generation under Wong Fei Hung? Can he prove this? Because if it's true then it's very prestigeious indeed. Because Fei Hung is revered and honored in China because he helped keep the tradition of MA alive in the country. You're saying 3rd generation?... Here is a bit of info on the man. This is another webpage about the man. Here is a quote from the first article ...

In Chinese kung fu, one's martial arts lineage is of nearly equal importance to one's family lineage. The handing down of kung fu techniques from sifu (teacher) to student is of grave importance as many of the forms and techniques widely used today can often be traced back to a single figure. Such is the case for the "Southern Fist" technique which would become the basis for Fei-hung's Hung Kuen style.

Regardless telling us the name of this sifu isn't going to black ball him or give him a bad rep. We're here to help, we are interested in keeping the integrity of MA alive and the teachings of MA on a straight and even keel. There are hundreds of McDojo's out there. The possibility that you may have to buy this man lunch just to get into the school or even an interview ... well you've read the replies thus far.

OK. To play devil's advocate:
It's possible that there's a genuinely good instructor (and no, the school down the street may not be very good) who decided to limit his class size by limiting the number of students he accepts. When our poster goes in, he get's the official line "no places".
Well, the wife sees this same guy come in twice and feel sorry for him. She knows that, given the chance, her husband is a softie and will bend his rule, so she suggests that the guy take her husband out to lunch. Once you get him going, he gets all excited and sees you are all excited and thinks "one more wouldn't kill me" (after all, she's seen him do it before). So, trying to be helpful, she suggests this to the turned away student.
I'm speculating, but so is everyone else here.

You're right we are speculating based on the information given. You may be right with what you say as well and I bow sincerely to you for bringing in the other side.
What puzzles me is that (depending upon the size of the school i.e. instructors to student ratio) there are seven days in a week and 12 working hours in a day... if it's a tiny school with one instructor and thus limited to say 8 to 10 students then yeah I can see how he'd want to limit. But even a small school with say 2-4 instructors and 15-40 students breaking the classes up to two/three a day 3-4 days a week... there's no room? Hrmmm.

Like #5 said once... "Need more input!"

By the way welcome to the forums from me as well. :asian:

 

[arnisador]

Unless I'm mistaken, Wong Fei Hung existed, but he is most famous as a mythical character who grew from that person's stories, roughly akin to Robin Hood. This was the child's character in Iron Monkey, starring Jet Li. I would be extraordinarily suspicious of this claim.

 

[ThatGuy]

in over 40 years of MA training I have never ever had some one buy me lunch or dinner for training or the tought of me training them.

That's because you teach TKD, and not a real martial art! :boing2:

 

[MA-Caver]

That's because you teach TKD, and not a real martial art! :boing2:

Woah, back up there... I hope that was a "just kidding" remark there.

 

[kenpochad]

That's because you teach TKD, and not a real martial art! :boing2:

Even if that was a joke that sucked terryl965 has helped me with a lot of (?)
along with alot of other people here at MT