Sifu is pissed off.

[Phobius]

You're not keeping up. Ironbear24 posted about his intention to beat up a family member prior to the assault, and then described it afterwards. There's no doubt of his guilt. And it's guilt of the worst kind, since it was a premeditated assault.
Personally, I'd encourage the family member to press charges.

Problem is, his family member agreed to fight against better knowledge. As such there should be little to no claim of premeditated assault. However if there had been an injury of any kind I would not want to be Ironbear.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Problem is, his family member agreed to fight against better knowledge. As such there should be little to no claim of premeditated assault. However if there had been an injury of any kind I would not want to be Ironbear.

No, he didn't. Ironbear24 specifically set out to provoke the conflict, and succeeded. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being anything other than an assault.

 

[moonhill99]

Problem is, his family member agreed to fight against better knowledge. As such there should be little to no claim of premeditated assault. However if there had been an injury of any kind I would not want to be Ironbear.

So he beet up a family member and a middle aged stranger on the street? The family member was a mutually agreed fight among both?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

So he beet up a family member and a middle aged stranger on the street? The family member was a mutually agreed fight among both?

No, there was no middle aged stranger. Just his uncle who is a middle aged man that is out of shape. The family member made fun of him, he wanted to punch him, people on here (myself and hanzou I believe) suggested that is a bad idea and offered the alternative of a mutual grappling match. He agreed and won the match. His sifu found out and got pissed off, which is the start of this thread.

It's a lot of things from a lot of different threads, but that's basically the cliffnotes version of this particular incident.

 

[Ironbear24]

No, he didn't. Ironbear24 specifically set out to provoke the conflict, and succeeded. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see this as being anything other than an assault.

You can't press charges because you got a bruised ego. There was no damage done to him other than hurt pride.

 

[Juany118]

You can't press charges because you got a bruised ego. There was no damage done to him other than hurt pride.

2701. Simple assault.
(a) Offense defined.--Except as provided under section 2702 (relating to aggravated assault), a person is guilty of assault if he:
(1) attempts to cause or intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another;
(2) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon;
(3) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

That is the statute in my State. So when it comes to subsection 1. Attempt comes down to techniques used and how the complainant describes the actual experience.

In subsection 3 all the complainant needs to do is articulate, during the incident, that they were in fear of serious bodily injury.

As such in your incident what is most important is whether or not the encounter was consensual

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[Dirty Dog]

You can't press charges because you got a bruised ego. There was no damage done to him other than hurt pride.

The bruised ego is yours. Bullies commonly have terribly fragile egos. It's one of the reasons you bully people.

He made fun of you. It bruised your ego. So you committed a pre-meditated assault on him.

And although I am not an LEO or a lawyer, I have, on many occasions, pressed charges against unruly patients who have laid hands on staff. Without injury. No injury is required for battery charges. Injury, and the degree of injury, certainly affects the specific level of charge (what class of misdemeanor or felony), but no injury is required.
You might want to peruse THIS site before you commit your next crime. If nothing else, I suspect they can probably hook you up with a defense lawyer.

 

[Ironbear24]

2701. Simple assault.
(a) Offense defined.--Except as provided under section 2702 (relating to aggravated assault), a person is guilty of assault if he:
(1) attempts to cause or intentionally, knowingly or recklessly causes bodily injury to another;
(2) negligently causes bodily injury to another with a deadly weapon;
(3) attempts by physical menace to put another in fear of imminent serious bodily injury;

That is the statute in my State. So when it comes to subsection 1. Attempt comes down to techniques used and how the complainant describes the actual experience.

In subsection 3 all the complainant needs to do is articulate, during the incident, that they were in fear of serious bodily injury.

As such in your incident what is most important is whether or not the encounter was consensual

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What harm was done?

 

[Ironbear24]

The bruised ego is yours. Bullies commonly have terribly fragile egos. It's one of the reasons you bully people.

He made fun of you. It bruised your ego. So you committed a pre-meditated assault on him.

And although I am not an LEO or a lawyer, I have, on many occasions, pressed charges against unruly patients who have laid hands on staff. Without injury. No injury is required for battery charges. Injury, and the degree of injury, certainly affects the specific level of charge (what class of misdemeanor or felony), but no injury is required.
You might want to peruse THIS site before you commit your next crime. If nothing else, I suspect they can probably hook you up with a defense lawyer.

My next crime? Look I know you think I'm a thug but there wont be a next crime. First of all what I did wasn't even a crime to begin with, we both agreed to do it. By that definition a boxer can can press charges against another boxer for assault since he intentionally harmed him.

 

[Juany118]

What harm was done?

You don't understand, there doesn't have to be actual physical harm. You can have an assault simply because a person was placed in a submission hold that caused them to tap out due to pain (subsections a1 and a3) because the hold, as an example this

simply due to the fact it can cause serious bodily injury in theory (attempt) and the fact the tapping out, the fear of bodily injury, is an element of a3.

a3 literally is ONLY about the state of mind of the "victim", you can say "what harm was done?" till blue in the face but if the "victim" articulates that they were placed in fear by physical menace you are toast.

That's just how the law works, in the US at least.


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[Ironbear24]

If you agree to a grappling match. You should very well know what that means. Are you telling me if a I challenge hanzou to a grappling match and he chokes me out. I can press charges agaisnt him? Do you know what kind of *** that would make me look like?

I am the one who agreed to do it. If I were afraid or so worried about getting hurt then I could have easily said no. The laws above are clearly designed for attacking people without their consent.

 

[Juany118]

My next crime? Look I know you think I'm a thug but there wont be a next crime. First of all what I did wasn't even a crime to begin with, we both agreed to do it. By that definition a boxer can can press charges against another boxer for assault since he intentionally harmed him.

No because there the issue of mutual consent creates a degree of immunity.

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[Ironbear24]

No because there the issue of mutual consent creates a degree of immunity.

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Well we both consented to grappling so the same rules apply.

 

[Juany118]

If you agree to a grappling match. You should very well know what that means. Are you telling me if a I challenge hanzou to a grappling match and he chokes me out. I can press charges agaisnt him? Do you know what kind of *** that would make me look like?

I am the one who agreed to do it. If I were afraid or so worried about getting hurt then I could have easily said no. The laws above are clearly designed for attacking people without their consent.

But here is the thing. For consent to attach it has to be informed. We know Hanzou does BJJ, and we know what BJJ entails, so we are informed. The boxer knows the rules of a boxing match, they are informed. While an extreme example, let's say we bumped into each other and you challenged me to a "fight" in a bar. You got into your stance, I take the conveniently still disassembled pool cue off the pool table and go FMA on you splitting your skull open. We both consented to the fight but your consent was uninformed because you were likely not expecting me to immediately go to weapons. Uninformed consent is not consent under the law.

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[Juany118]

Well we both consented to grappling so the same rules apply.

There is wrestling and then there is grappling so it depends on how informed he was. Additionally because most States don't like public brawls...

(b) Grading.--Simple assault is a misdemeanor of the second degree unless committed:
(1) in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a misdemeanor of the third degree;

While the negative consequences of your actions have been limited up to this point, I don't think you have thought of all the potential ramifications.
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[Ironbear24]

But here is the thing. For consent to attach it has to be informed. We know Hanzou does BJJ, and we know what BJJ entails, so we are informed. The boxer knows the rules of a boxing match, they are informed. While an extreme example, let's say we bumped into each other and you challenged me to a "fight" in a bar. You got into your stance, I take the conveniently still disassembled pool cue off the pool table and go FMA on you splitting your skull open. We both consented to the fight but your consent was uninformed because you were likely not expecting me to immediately go to weapons. Uninformed consent is not consent under the law.

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There is wrestling and then there is grappling so it depends on how informed he was. Additionally because most States don't like public brawls...

(b) Grading.--Simple assault is a misdemeanor of the second degree unless committed:
(1) in a fight or scuffle entered into by mutual consent, in which case it is a misdemeanor of the third degree;

While the negative consequences of your actions have been limited up to this point, I don't think you have thought of all the potential ramifications.
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It feels like you are arguing with me simply for the sake of arguing. Earlier in the thread I listed the exact conversation between me and my uncle. If you did not see it that's totally ok, that is an easy thing to miss.

The conversation went something like this.

Me : Hey want to have a Judo match?

Uncle: Judo is for pussies. I wrestle.

Me : Its the same thing but whatever. You want to or not.

Uncle: yeah let's go then.

Clearly he knew what he was getting into. He tried pushing me and took his arm and basically got him with a hip throw. I then pinned him. He wasn't hurt and he quickly stood up after the match, I even tried to help him up and he turned me away and got up by himself.

 

[Juany118]

It feels like you are arguing with me simply for the sake of arguing. Earlier in the thread I listed the exact conversation between me and my uncle. If you did not see it that's totally ok, that is an easy thing to miss.

The conversation went something like this.

Me : Hey want to have a Judo match?

Uncle: Judo is for pussies. I wrestle.

Me : Its the same thing but whatever. You want to or not.

Uncle: yeah let's go then.

Clearly he knew what he was getting into. He tried pushing me and took his arm and basically got him with a hip throw. I then pinned him. He wasn't hurt and he quickly stood up after the match, I even tried to help him up and he turned me away and got up by himself.

No I am actually trying to help you. You have no clue how often in a fight, when the cops show up, it's not necessarily the person who "started it" that is the only one locked up. They first person usually put in cuffs? The guy winning/not bleeding. Then MAYBE a neutral third party has the integrity to step forward and clear him. If it is a he said/she said game the guy winning/not bleeding goes to jail.

Example, Saturday night, we had a HUGE brawl at a local banquet hall (we had to call in 5 surrounding PDs for manpower). We hooked a bunch of people. One of them was actually a victim but due to his demeanor and other circumstances he was a suspect as far as we were concerned, until a 60 odd year old women, whose Grand Kids I used to play with when I did community policing and who is (incidentally) one of the nicest ladies on earth, ran up to me and told me the guy was only trying to defend his 16 daughter from getting struck. If that lady hadn't been there that guy would have gone to the station because we had no one impartial to vouch for him.

The law doesn't care about what is known only what can be proved and if it is can be proven you beat a guy, and it can't be proven it was consensual or self defense you get booked.

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[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Also, and I can't believe I'm posting in this thread again, the uncle knew how much Ironbear trains..apparently he makes fun of him for it. He knew he was consenting to grapple with a training martial artist in that martial artists art, it's not like anything was a surprise like your lack of consent example.

 

[Ironbear24]

Well those are very different circumstances. I did just up and throw this person to the floor, I asked him if he wanted to have a "Judo" match. As kenpodesciple stated above he knows I train, and even makes fun of me for training so much.

So it's not like he had no clue what he was getting himself into. If he had simply said no I would have let it go at that.

 

[moonhill99]

It feels like you are arguing with me simply for the sake of arguing. Earlier in the thread I listed the exact conversation between me and my uncle. If you did not see it that's totally ok, that is an easy thing to miss.

The conversation went something like this.

Me : Hey want to have a Judo match?

Uncle: Judo is for pussies. I wrestle.

Me : Its the same thing but whatever. You want to or not.

Uncle: yeah let's go then.

Clearly he knew what he was getting into. He tried pushing me and took his arm and basically got him with a hip throw. I then pinned him. He wasn't hurt and he quickly stood up after the match, I even tried to help him up and he turned me away and got up by himself.

It was not mutually agreed fight among both. He said some thing and you got mad and challenge him to fight. And than he said okay that go at it.

So in simple terms among the police it was nothing more than family domestic violence call.