Should Kenpoka be Breaking Boards?

Thesemindz

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I've been reading through the TKD forums and they discuss board breaking a lot. I've rarely ever practiced board breaking. Once at a Superfoot Wallace seminar with re-breakable boards, and way way back as a kid when I practiced TKD myself. So I only have limited knowledge of the practice and I was curious what you guys thought.

At our school, we do a ton karate a ton of different ways. But we don't practice with boards, except occasionally as weapons. Not usually breaking. We actually do have a few re-breakable boards that our head instructor bought a while back, and we do play with them occasionally, but it's never a serious part of our method. It's more like screwing around before and after class every once in a while, and usually it's the younger students who find them in the equipment room and get all excited. Then we show them how it works, and that's fun for a day, and then they go back in the closet. Personally, I've always preferred body work to anything else. The music is made for the instrument. But my students spend a lot of time in class doing air, pad, mitt, shield, and bag work too. Just not boards.

It's just not the way I was brought up. I think there was always a little bit of a dismissive attitude towards the practice. Boards don't hit back, never been mugged by a board, that sort of thing. But I'm reading these TKD forums, and I'm intrigued by some of what I'm seeing.

Generally, I take TKD with a grain of salt. It's not that there aren't some really amazing TKD players out there, and some really great schools. I did TKD myself, and I have a huge amount of respect for the instructors I worked with. But most of the TKD schools I've personally been in are the kind where you see mom and dad and their six year old chasing each other around with foam paddles. That's ok. I'm glad those people have something wholesome to do together. It's just not the kind of karate I'm in to. I know there are also hard fighting TKD schools, they're just rarer.

But I see these same moms and dads talking about how when they tested with their ten year old last week they had to break a stack of wooden boards to get their next belt. Now that makes me look at these guys in a whole new light. My students fight all the time, and they're tough, and we do occasionally injure each other in our training, but we don't spend significant amounts of time practicing breaking wooden boards with our basics. Maybe we should? I don't know, but it's got me wondering.

There's another thread over there where they're discussing the importance of basics and what is perceived by some to be a general lessening on the emphasis placed on proper basics. This is an old kenpo argument. Are we practicing basics enough? Is it enough to only practice them in our techniques? We've talked about that for years. Personally, I'm a big believer in practicing your basics. Stances, strikes, grapples. Drill baby drill. You can't practice your basics enough. You're only as good as your basics. I tell my students every class.

But here's a whole other way to practice basics, board breaking, that I'm not using. So I'm curious. Do any of you guys break boards? Do you think we should be? What's your take on board breaking in general? Pro's? Con's? Does anybody know if Mr. Parker had a take on board breaking? I honestly can't remember. If you are, why? If you aren't, why not?

I'm thinking about it. At least for advanced students. Might be a neat way to amp up my brown belts. What do you guys think?


-Rob
 

Flying Crane

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I don't personally see much reason for anyone, from any system, to do it.

Once in a while, to see what you can do? sure, it can be kinda fun. But on a regular basis, I just don't feel it has a lot of value, esp. if you are doing stuff like working on the heavy bag on a regular basis.

that's my opinion on it.
 
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Thesemindz

Thesemindz

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I don't personally see much reason for anyone, from any system, to do it.

Once in a while, to see what you can do? sure, it can be kinda fun. But on a regular basis, I just don't feel it has a lot of value, esp. if you are doing stuff like working on the heavy bag on a regular basis.

that's my opinion on it.

That's always been my take on it. Kind of a fun activity occasionally, but otherwise not serious karate. But maybe if we were breaking boards in every class we'd be developing some pretty awesome kicks and punches.

Then again, that might get expensive pretty fast.


-Rob
 

Flying Crane

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That's always been my take on it. Kind of a fun activity occasionally, but otherwise not serious karate. But maybe if we were breaking boards in every class we'd be developing some pretty awesome kicks and punches.

er, I dunno. I think the heavy bag will do it better in the long run.

Then again, that might get expensive pretty fast.


-Rob

yup, it's just kindling for the fireplace.
 

Carol

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er, I dunno. I think the heavy bag will do it better in the long run.

Or better still, a 100 or 200 pound muay thai bag. You know...just in case you ever have to kick a 200 pound something-or-other in real life :D
 

Kemposhot

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I've never practiced this in class. Personally have very little interest in doing it, although I will admit I think it looks pretty cool to watch.
 

LawDog

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Breaking boards has no technique value however it does help develope a much needed mindset. If one is really intent on training for self defense or fighting purposes you have to accept the fact that your body has many hard bones in it. After breaking one or multi boards you will develope a mindset that if you hit a boney area you will probably not destroy your hand and there is a possiblity that you could break the bone that you have struck.
Many will say that they will only strike to the soft area or into pressure point areas, on a static person this is easy to. However, when the opponet is moving and striking back there is a high likely hood that you will miss and hit into one of the bone areas.
I have been told by many that they will not do this kind of training for many reason and that they would rather take a chance on breaking their hand during a fight. I have broken a hand, knuckles and fingers during minor scuffles and I can say that you better be real tuff because with only one hand your going to get a minor beating.
Bottom line is I think that if you are training in an impact type of system then you should. The choice is yours so enjoy your training.
:ultracool
 

Touch Of Death

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I don't personally see much reason for anyone, from any system, to do it.

Once in a while, to see what you can do? sure, it can be kinda fun. But on a regular basis, I just don't feel it has a lot of value, esp. if you are doing stuff like working on the heavy bag on a regular basis.

that's my opinion on it.
Mr. Parker had the two percent rule. Board breaking is about 2% of your art and should be practiced 2% of the time; so, your opinion pretty much matches what Mr. Parker said.:)
Sean
 

Inkspill

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Board breaking is a good way to remove doubt, and to develop regulation of power, how hard do you need to hit? what does that feel like? hitting hard enough to break one board vs 2, 3, 4 boards.

If you can break one board with your straight heel palm, you can break a nose with it. It teaches a lot of things that can be developed elsewhere, but there is something to feel breaking a board without injuring yourself, its cool but for me more importantly it showed me the potential in myself, it removed doubt. I've only broken 2 boards glued together, but I did it with what I felt was my weakest strike, made it strong enough to break through the boards, and the feeling was great, I hit through the target, correct striking surface, etc, no injury. I look at boards (and people) in a different light after that. I felt how damaging I could be. we could seriously maim or kill somebody here, that's very serious. These natural weapons ARE weapons. (At least they are becoming so with this art, not so much so in some previous stuff I studied)
 

knuckleheader

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It has a place in practice. For the novice, it's a way to develope focus while over coming doubt.

I wish schools would prepare the kids better, they are the ones who suffer from missed breaking attempts. Not a good way to instill confidence.
I don't think it's wise to try it without propper makiwara trainig. Which I've seen done too many times.

A traditional way for exponents to do demonstrations and awe the crowd.


If you want to break boards or bricks, whatever. Prepare before hand. Unintended punn
 

punisher73

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I don't think kids should be breaking boards with hand techniques anyways. Their bones are still forming and the conditioning to go through a couple doesn't seem like a good idea when they aren't fully formed yet.

As to board breaking. It should be a byproduct and not a goal. Back when my instructors used to do board breaking, they would either have the board hanging by a rope and you had to break the board in place, or toss the board in front of you from the side and you punched it to work on timing as well. If you pushed with your strike the board would just fly away. This insured good technique, the board breaking was just visual feedback for what you wanted to accomplish.
 
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Thesemindz

Thesemindz

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I don't think kids should be breaking boards with hand techniques anyways. Their bones are still forming and the conditioning to go through a couple doesn't seem like a good idea when they aren't fully formed yet.

As to board breaking. It should be a byproduct and not a goal. Back when my instructors used to do board breaking, they would either have the board hanging by a rope and you had to break the board in place, or toss the board in front of you from the side and you punched it to work on timing as well. If you pushed with your strike the board would just fly away. This insured good technique, the board breaking was just visual feedback for what you wanted to accomplish.

I think that's a really good point about kids breaking boards. I don't even like to practice intense grappling techniques with kids because I don't want it to impact negatively on their developing joints and muscles. Ironically, the only time I've ever actually practiced this in a dojo was when I was a kid doing TKD. Although I have used my kicks and punches to break down some wooden furniture and construction debris for disposal.

I think board breaking could be cool as part of a ritual, maybe after a big test or at a seminar or during a special class. But as part of the regular training I think it would be expensive, messy, and less useful than bag and body work.

So now I'm considering having my students break inch thick sheets of glass. That way the debris will all evaporate and I won't have to worry about the investment or the mess!

That's a joke.


-Rob
 

OKenpo942

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To each their own, but I don't think it has much place in a Kenpo test.

If you want to do it, then do it if that's your thing. It is not mine, however, and I don't have much use for it.

James
 

Nomad

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We'll do occasional seminars where we teach how to break boards or brick safely, and it can be a great confidence booster for all the reasons mentioned. Besides, it's also fun.

Other than that, we break maybe a couple of times a year for demonstrations. Definitely not often, or in regular class time, and it's strictly a voluntary thing. Some of our students never break, others get a pretty big rush from it and try more difficult and complicated breaks as they progress.

As to the "Boards don't hit back" quote that everyone spouts... technically, especially if you've got good holders and the board(s) don't break, Newton's laws says that they kind of do hit back. The force of the hit goes right back into the hand (or foot), and that can hurt. In contrast, a successful break is usually painless.
 

punisher73

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As to the "Boards don't hit back" quote that everyone spouts... technically, especially if you've got good holders and the board(s) don't break, Newton's laws says that they kind of do hit back. The force of the hit goes right back into the hand (or foot), and that can hurt. In contrast, a successful break is usually painless.

I hate that quote. It is so pointless. Boards don't hit back, well either do pads or heavy bags, but we still use those as regular training aids. If you don't want to break boards fine, but dont' make a stupid argument why you don't use them.
 
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Thesemindz

Thesemindz

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I hate that quote. It is so pointless. Boards don't hit back, well either do pads or heavy bags, but we still use those as regular training aids. If you don't want to break boards fine, but dont' make a stupid argument why you don't use them.

I suppose if a person only ever trained with a resisting opponent, never in the air or with any kind of training aid, then that would be a valid argument. But no one I've ever known to make that argument fit those criteria.

Where would you even buy the boards to break? What kind of wood do you use? Balsa? Bamboo? Pine? I guess if I really want to know I should ask the TKDers. I bet there's a whole industry devoted to providing these boards to TKD schools.


-Rob
 

punisher73

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I suppose if a person only ever trained with a resisting opponent, never in the air or with any kind of training aid, then that would be a valid argument. But no one I've ever known to make that argument fit those criteria.

Where would you even buy the boards to break? What kind of wood do you use? Balsa? Bamboo? Pine? I guess if I really want to know I should ask the TKDers. I bet there's a whole industry devoted to providing these boards to TKD schools.


-Rob

Most use 1 inch pine boards. Just go to your local home improvement store and buy a long board that meets your requirements and cut it into smaller pieces. I think most usually cut them around a 12 x 12 inch square or thereabouts.
 

Wo Fat

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While I too subscribe to the "Boards don't hit back" theory, I have to disagree that it's the same as heavy bag or focus mitt training. The objective of board breaking is as the term says ... to break a board. To the contrary, the objective is not to punch a hole through a heavy bag. There's no false sense of victory seeing the sand or foam from a heavy bag spill onto the floor. But--and this is just one guy's opinion--there is a false sense of victory in breaking boards, especially boards that break on-demand. That's perfectly fine for children. But I'm not so sure that anyone over the age of 13 ought to rely on board breaking in their training.

Again, no offense. Just one guy's opinion.
 

cdunn

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Most use 1 inch pine boards. Just go to your local home improvement store and buy a long board that meets your requirements and cut it into smaller pieces. I think most usually cut them around a 12 x 12 inch square or thereabouts.

Just make sure the boards are reasonably well cured, and you're good to go. While some people bake them out to make easy-break show pieces of boards, which they shouldn't be, it is possible to go too far in the other direction. We hit up the local lumber mill to stock up for a tournament one year, and got boards that were so green they were still oozing sap. It was... not pretty. We had people leaving knuckle prints almost a quarter inch deep in the boards without breaking them, and a couple broken toes.
 

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