Should a Student Practice on His Own, or Not?

jks9199

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WaterGal

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This is a question for Balrog or anyone else that uses a supplemental curriculum DVD for Taekwondo: What material is on your DVD?

I ask because there are some very good professional videos of the Taegeuk forms available on Youtube, and some pretty decent kicking tutorials too. I made a DVD for our Hapkido hoshinsul (self-defense) curriculum, since it involvse a lot of specific detail and is not standardized the way KKW TKD is. But I don't feel like I could make a TKD DVD worth buying, considering the free resources available online. I feel like I'd be ripping off our students. Is there something I'm missing in terms of what could be on the DVD that would be helpful to the students?
 

Dirty Dog

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This is a question for Balrog or anyone else that uses a supplemental curriculum DVD for Taekwondo: What material is on your DVD?

I ask because there are some very good professional videos of the Taegeuk forms available on Youtube, and some pretty decent kicking tutorials too. I made a DVD for our Hapkido hoshinsul (self-defense) curriculum, since it involvse a lot of specific detail and is not standardized the way KKW TKD is. But I don't feel like I could make a TKD DVD worth buying, considering the free resources available online. I feel like I'd be ripping off our students. Is there something I'm missing in terms of what could be on the DVD that would be helpful to the students?

What you're missing is that the Tae Kwon Do world does not start or stop with the Kukkiwon. The KKW may be the largest single org (being backed and controlled by the South Korean govt is a factor...) but KKW schools are certainly not a majority of tkd schools overall.


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Metal

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What you're missing is that the Tae Kwon Do world does not start or stop with the Kukkiwon. The KKW may be the largest single org (being backed and controlled by the South Korean govt is a factor...) but KKW schools are certainly not a majority of tkd schools overall.


What makes you think so?
Do you have any numbers?

In the US and also in countries like Germany where ITF TKD and so called 'traditional' Taekwondo plus all of their descendants are a huge percentage of the overall Taekwondo practitioners this may be the case, but there's lots of countries where TKD was introduced after 1973 and where they haven't even heard about General Choi and the Chang Hon forms. ;-)


To get back to the topic: I think a student will benefit from practising on his own once he know what he's doing. Plus it also depends on how often you can attend class. When I was a kid we only had TKD lessons once per week, later twice per week on two consecutive days. That meant that getting further in rank took forever plus you had to do something besides those two days in a week in order to get stronger and become more flexible.

That's also what people should concentrate on first when they start practising on their own. Work on stuff like strength, balance and flexibility. Plus of course those students should be aware of how they make progress in those fields without hurting themselves in the long run.

If you have the possibility to train three times or more per week then students should take the chance to rest and recover on theother days.

Talking about videos, I wish more instructors (when it comes to WTF/Kukkiwon TKD) would point out to their students that there's a Kukkiwon Poomsae DVD that they could check out in order to see how it's done correctly. Eventhough it's from 2006 and not 100% up to date for competition on a world championship level it's definitely up to date for amateur sports. Whenever I'm at seminars, when I'm training at other schools or especially when I click through videos on YouTube I see weird versions of Poomsae. Some have weird rhythm/speed, some have weird and unnecessary movements. Some do movements and stances of the Chang Hon system while performing Poomsae patterns (especially when checking out Palgwe videos). That's btw also the way I learned Poomsae from my instructor who had just switched from ITF to Kukkiwon/WTF. We did the new patterns, but kept the old stances and techniques.

Handing out or pointing out the right material to your students could help getting closer to a worldwide standard of Poomsae that Kukkiwon wants to establish.
 

Dirty Dog

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What makes you think so?

Well, for one thing, the rather large number of us HERE (where we have members from all over the world) who are not KKW.

Do you have any numbers?

No, and you're not going to find any either, since it's not the sort of thing anybody really keep stats on.
However, it's easy enough to do spot checks...
Colorado Springs is the home of the US Olympic Training Center. Given that fact, it's reasonable to suppose that KKW-affiliated schools might well have an unusually high presence in the area. A quick check with google does show a lot of TKD schools in the area. I did a quick scan over the sites linked, checking their home page and whatever page they had talking about the instructors. Basically, I assumed that any school that didn't specifically list an affiliation was a KKW school (an unwarranted assumption, as some of them are almost certainly independent schools). Based on that assumption, the KKW schools are just about half.

In the US and also in countries like Germany where ITF TKD and so called 'traditional' Taekwondo plus all of their descendants are a huge percentage of the overall Taekwondo practitioners this may be the case, but there's lots of countries where TKD was introduced after 1973 and where they haven't even heard about General Choi and the Chang Hon forms. ;-)

Do you think that the KKW-affiliated schools in those countries outnumber the vast numbers of ITF, ATA, ATF, GTF, Rhee TKD, various Kwan based schools (Moo Duk Kwan, etc), and unaffiliated schools?

To get back to the topic: I think a student will benefit from practising on his own once he know what he's doing. Plus it also depends on how often you can attend class. When I was a kid we only had TKD lessons once per week, later twice per week on two consecutive days. That meant that getting further in rank took forever plus you had to do something besides those two days in a week in order to get stronger and become more flexible.

Agree completely. We offer classes three days a week, but we expect students to practice the things they've learned at home. Some do, some don't, and it's really very easy to tell who falls in which category.
 

donald1

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Since the forum isn't too busy these days, I'll throw another topic up for discussion.

Should a student practice on his own, or not? Does belt-level matter? Should the student only practice what the instructor/master says to practice?


Do you agree?

yes an instructor can tell you what your doing wrong but your instructor will get mad if he is constantly repeating him self
pull your arm back more! tight fists! step out more! examples like those. eventually you learn these things but you dont learn them as good or fast as you could if you don't do them often ,so doing them at home would help there. it also helps you get the feel of the form your doing to so you feel more comfortable when you do it and it looks more natural. so i do agree it should also be done at home to but make sure you know that you are doing it correctly.

best of luck
 

Metal

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No, and you're not going to find any either, since it's not the sort of thing anybody really keep stats on.
However, it's easy enough to do spot checks...
Colorado Springs is the home of the US Olympic Training Center. Given that fact, it's reasonable to suppose that KKW-affiliated schools might well have an unusually high presence in the area. A quick check with google does show a lot of TKD schools in the area. I did a quick scan over the sites linked, checking their home page and whatever page they had talking about the instructors. Basically, I assumed that any school that didn't specifically list an affiliation was a KKW school (an unwarranted assumption, as some of them are almost certainly independent schools). Based on that assumption, the KKW schools are just about half.



Do you think that the KKW-affiliated schools in those countries outnumber the vast numbers of ITF, ATA, ATF, GTF, Rhee TKD, various Kwan based schools (Moo Duk Kwan, etc), and unaffiliated schools?


There are some numbers out there, like the numbers of registered Kukkiwon dojangs worldwide on the Kukkiwon Membership System website:

http://kms.kukkiwon.or.kr/usr/main.do

The DTU (German Taekwondo Union) lists all their affiliated schools and clubs on their webiste, which are more than 900 right now. So while the Kukkiwon only lists 1098 Kukkiwon dojangs in Germany, the DTU (German Taekwondo Union) is listed as one of those dojangs. So in fact you could say there's approx. 2000 Kukkiwon schools/dojangs in Germany.

Since Taekwondo started in Germany back in the 60s, just like in the US - it was already going strong before WTF and Kukkiwon sent out their instructors. For example there's a lot of unaffiliated schools/clubs or smaller associations like Kwon Jae Hwa Taekwondo (from which I learned that Master Kwon retired from running his own Association in Germany when I wanted to check their website).

As you say, it's hard to find numbes, but I was wondering if there are any numbers concerning the US.


In the majority of countries where TKD was introduced after 1975 I'd say that WTF/Kukkiwon TKD is dominant. Especially all the countries which joined recently.

I'd say the US and Germany are exceptions. Still I'd say that the majority of TKD clubs/and schools in Germany are teaching Kukkiwon TKD or at least it's 50% Kukkiwon/WTF and 50% ITF/traditional and so on. Maybe one day when I'm bored I'll start doing more research on that. ^^
 

Dirty Dog

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There are some numbers out there, like the numbers of registered Kukkiwon dojangs worldwide on the Kukkiwon Membership System website:

They're not valid numbers, since the KKW assumes that if you offer KKW certification, that is ALL you offer. Not necessarily true. We offer KKW certification, but most of our students choose Moo Duk Kwan certification. Nor is our core curriculum KKW.
 
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yes an instructor can tell you what your doing wrong but your instructor will get mad if he is constantly repeating him self
pull your arm back more! tight fists! step out more! examples like those.....

best of luck
Thanks. I've gotten some noise complaints from the tenant in the apartment below, so I've curtailed my in apartment BOB kicking! Instead, I have gone to the gym more often, where there are mirrors. It's interesting to see myself in the mirror do a kick with my "good" side, then see arms flailing away when I do the same kick with my "bad" side!!

My landlord wants to sell the condo apartment soon, so I will be focused on moving in the next month or two. Then I will join one of the 3 tkd clubs around my home. One doesn't like students to practice at home, one has poor mats, and the third has IMO a poor business aspect (e.g., the website and door says they open at noon, but no one was there at 1 pm and no one returned my call when I left a message at 3 pm). I was previously at the 3rd for one month and enjoyed it, but left after they said month to month would not be acceptable, and a year contract was needed, which didn't work for me as I was looking for a job and wasn't exactly sure where I would end up.

I plan on joining the third, opting for the twice per week program as I will be travelling quite a bit in my new job. However, tkd is now on the backburner as I focus on first finding another apartment, then moving.
 

Master Dan

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Not sure this is off track but we use video taping a lot on a periodic basis so that students can identify problems and correct them. I have found that many students when you tell them even show them what they are doing wrong unless they are a very dedicated student that totally believes everything you say and attempt to do just that most tend to not believe you or cannot vision it? So by video taping and using high definition large screen they can see it and correct the problem. This method is also good for training assistant instructors to watch and comment and point out what they see or don't see. One thing that is nice about digital is that you can slow action down to 30 frames per second and catch really nice shots of breaking or sparing. One thing I find frustrating is the enormous time and storage you need to edit video now. If any of you have a camera and particular software you prefer I would like to hear that
 

Dirty Dog

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Not sure this is off track but we use video taping a lot on a periodic basis so that students can identify problems and correct them. I have found that many students when you tell them even show them what they are doing wrong unless they are a very dedicated student that totally believes everything you say and attempt to do just that most tend to not believe you or cannot vision it? So by video taping and using high definition large screen they can see it and correct the problem. This method is also good for training assistant instructors to watch and comment and point out what they see or don't see. One thing that is nice about digital is that you can slow action down to 30 frames per second and catch really nice shots of breaking or sparing. One thing I find frustrating is the enormous time and storage you need to edit video now. If any of you have a camera and particular software you prefer I would like to hear that

I get a lot of use out of the Coaches Eye app on my iPhone/iPad. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And a video (especially when you can frame-by-frame and markup on it...) is worth ten thousand.
 
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Gwai Lo Dan

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I get a lot of use out of the Coaches Eye app on my iPhone/iPad. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. And a video (especially when you can frame-by-frame and markup on it...) is worth ten thousand.
The side-by-side feature looks perfect for tkd where you may have a better leg.
 

wingchun100

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Solo practice is essential. My new attitude toward my wing chun is: forms are "homework," class time is for learning how to apply the techniques to another human being so I can develop my reflexes. Unfortunately it isn't my school, so it's not my choice. LOL However, if Sifu had the same mentality that I do, then we would do forms in class only under a handful of situations:

1) The student is too new to do chi sao, so they can work on forms in class.
2) The student was doing the form at home for a while and had a question, so they brought it up in class for Sifu to address.
3) Sifu hasn't seen you do your form in a while and wants to see how it's coming along.
4) The student might not have the equipment at home to do one of the forms they know. For example, wing chun has a wooden dummy, pole and butterfly swords form. If you don't have these at home, you can do them in class.
5) Every now and then at the start of class, Sifu leads every student through a form. This is actually AWESOME because it creates a sense of togetherness between the students. (At least, it does in MY mind.)
 

TKD_luver

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A good dojo will have you practice all of the time. The more you practice, the better you'll get. It's just fact. At my dojo they give you a video to take home so you don't practice the wrong stuff. It might even be okay for them to put a video on. It's NEVER okay to tell a student NOT to practice. It's just fact that that makes it a McDojo. At my dojo, people who practice are rewarded and they can tell if you've practiced or not at my dojo. I know.

That's even worse than a regular McDojo. A regular McDojo should at least make you buy a DVD to show you how to practice your forms. But no, they have to be even worse and tell you to NOT practice.
 
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