Self Promotions

[John Bishop]

Good point, but even that isn't always the case, there are some who just cheat themselves (and worse still their students) by looking more towardas the rank than towards the associated skills for that rank.

There are phonies and B.S. artists is all walks of life.
You can buy mail order PHD's, be ordained as a minister by mail, or receive many other types of credentials without possessing much more skill then it takes to write a check.
If you stay in the martial arts long enough you'll know who's for real, and who's not.

 

[Simon Curran]

There are phonies and B.S. artists is all walks of life.
You can buy mail order PHD's, be ordained as a minister by mail, or receive many other types of credentials without possessing much more skill then it takes to write a check.
If you stay in the martial arts long enough you'll know who's for real, and who's not.

I'm not disputing that, in my short time in the martial arts, I have already met several people who were X Dan or Sifu this etc. who I am pretty sure that I could have flattened even before I started studying...
Best wishes
Simon

 

[getgoin]

I am in favor of scrapping the whole belt system. I have been making plans to do so for sometime now. It does little more than create politics in the school and thats not needed. Everyone know who came before them and who came after them. Just as everyone know who's better at what in every school. When you go to work your bosses and supervisors don't wear belts or special uniforms (outside of miltary and LE) to single themselves out. But everyone knows who they are and act accordingly when they are around.

I am leaning to the idea of testing people for Black because they are ready to test not because how long they have been with me, like some school do. I know of some schools that test like clockwork. For some it may be four years, others it may be 10. I figure I'll test them, then tell them to keep it in there bag because they may have to wear it one day.

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

I am in favor of scrapping the whole belt system. I have been making plans to do so for sometime now. It does little more than create politics in the school and thats not needed. Everyone know who came before them and who came after them. Just as everyone know who's better at what in every school. When you go to work your bosses and supervisors don't wear belts or special uniforms (outside of miltary and LE) to single themselves out. But everyone knows who they are and act accordingly when they are around.

I am leaning to the idea of testing people for Black because they are ready to test not because how long they have been with me, like some school do. I know of some schools that test like clockwork. For some it may be four years, others it may be 10. I figure I'll test them, then tell them to keep it in there bag because they may have to wear it one day.

So what are you going to tell your students when there's going to be no rank? How do you separate yourself from the students? Are you going to wear the Black Belt? Where is the incentive to grow?

DarK LorD

 

[Karazenpo]

Thanks Joe, I hope you don't mind me paraphrasing you in my previous post.

No, of course not Tom!

 

[Karazenpo]

I wouldn't get rid of the belt ranking system either, people are goal orientated and the belt system is perfect for this. As a matter of fact, it breaks things down into short term goals rather then looking at the big picture and it aids the instructors in organizing their classes and curriculum. If done properly it can be an asset to any school, again, if done properly. Yes, it's true at civillian jobs, but when you walk by the boss's office I'm sure there is a name and title on his door signifying his 'rank' per se or 'position' within the company and I'm sure this carries over to all in-house memos and so forth. I'll go with you about promoting when you feel the student is ready rather than basing it on his/her time in grade alone. Time in grade is a contributing factor but knowing the proper curriculum at a specific skill level is very important also. Just my opinion.

 

[GAB]

Hi all,

I agree with what most of you are saying. The right and left of it if I may.I think the best way to look at it is from a center position, Just like MA.

So with that, you need guide lines. Belts are guide lines and time in grade is a guide line. Most of us do not, eat, live, and breath Martial Arts.

There are only a couple of them that I know of. I have heard rumors, but then I don't know them. I think everyone on this board will know someone like that, but the rest are not so involved.

M. A. is about discipline and accountability, I think you will agree, so we need a yardstick and belts are the way to go.

This is not all about fighting. It is about knowledge, and the ability to demonstrate ones skill, me I am just an old white belt.

Bet I have been in more fights then most of you though. So does that make me a black belt? NO....
Regards, Gary

 

[kenpo tiger]

This question comes up quite often. Like ability to fight is the only thing that matters in the martial arts.
Most traditional martial artists don't acheive 8th,9th,10th degrees until they're past their 50s-60s, with 25-45 years of experience. So it makes no sense to say they don't deserve their ranks because a 25-30 year old black belt could physically beat them up.
Our seniors are the one's who teach us, counsel us, and propagate our arts. They are the grandfathers and fathers in our system. They gained their positions through decades of training and teaching.
Like anything thing in life. The harder and longer you work for something, the more value it has.
If someone is in a system, school, or organization that has low requirements for promotion, that dosen't mean every system, school, or organization has.

Exactly. 'Rap on, brother, rap on!':asian:

 

[getgoin]

So what are you going to tell your students when there's going to be no rank? How do you separate yourself from the students? Are you going to wear the Black Belt? Where is the incentive to grow?

DarK LorD

I haven't put my belt on in almost a year and a half. Well, once when I went to my Prof. school, he asked me to wear it. People don't seem to have trouble seperating me from students. And the incentive to grow is within them, grow in thier abilities and knowledge. Nothing I put on them will give them that incentive if they don't have it in the first place. Plus I know a lot of people who quit after getting thier black belt because most people look at it as the end of the road. They can defend themselves and have a piece of cloth to prove it.:wink2:

I don't think I will tell my students anything. Most of them don't wear thier belt now anyhow and I don't tell them to put one on. I figure to give it time and it most likely will faise itself out. If the student wants to wear a belt, thats fine to, I don't make a big deal out of it either way.

 

[koga ha]

So what are you going to tell your students when there's going to be no rank? How do you separate yourself from the students? Are you going to wear the Black Belt? Where is the incentive to grow?

DarK LorD

there is a rank; it's called knowledge. separate yourself by wearing a different color. the incentive to grow should come from the student. you are simply a guide.

for $99.95 i'll say more! :lol:

 

[Jeff Boler]

there is a rank; it's called knowledge. separate yourself by wearing a different color. the incentive to grow should come from the student. you are simply a guide.

for $99.95 i'll say more! :lol:

Koga Ha (Is there a real name here?),

I find your viewpoints on this subject interesting. I am under the assumption that you are a student of Nimr Hassan, of Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Kempo?

If this is the case, perhaps you can enlighten me. How much time did Nimr Hassan (aka Terry Lee) spend in actual training with James Mitose? How much time did he spend training with William Durbin of Kiyojute Ryu? You see, I think your opinions on this subject may have something to do with the fact that Hassan spent less than a year training under Mitose (before he was incarcerated for murder), and was given a 5th Dan from Durbin, who in turn, added the Koga Ha curriculum to his own system. So, I don't think the idea of EARNED RANK means much here, especially when it is GIVEN so freely.

I was always under the impression that RANK, was basically used for goal setting. Once you reach one goal, you move forward to the another goal, and so on, and so forth.

 

[Rob Broad]

I remember back when I was a beginner a Black Belt meant a lot. Then the expansion of TKD struck North America back in the early 80's and they were handing out Black Belts to anyone to get the publicity. Schools had to either find a way to compete with this onslaugth or go under. Unfortunately many of the schools that decided to try and compete lessened their standards, so now you have a bunch of uber-ranks that can't fight their way out of a wet paperbag.

I remember seeing a lot of good schools go under because they could not compete with the flast track that was set up by their competition. And to the beginner who knows nothing about the arts, there is no difference between TKD, Kenpo, Wing Chun or any other style, the only difference they see is a 18 - 24 month journey to Back Belt compared to a period that is usually twice as long.

 

[Seabrook]

One needs only to go on ebay on a weekly basis to find "Grandmaster Roman's" pay me the big bucks and I will give you a black belt (no experience necessary) program.

The scary thing is that beginners starting out at a club would have no idea their instructor is not legitimate. He/she may only have 12 months experience in the martial arts, but hey, they would have a signed black belt certificate from Grandmaster Roman, recognizing the instructor as an AK black belt.

It's people like him that give EPAK a bad name.

 

[Seabrook]

On another note, why does Roman call himself a "Grandmaster"? My understanding is that he is an 8th degree?

Jamie Seabrook
http://www.seabrook.gotkenpo.com

 

[The Kai]

Koga Ha (Is there a real name here?),

I find your viewpoints on this subject interesting. I am under the assumption that you are a student of Nimr Hassan, of Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Kempo?

If this is the case, perhaps you can enlighten me. How much time did Nimr Hassan (aka Terry Lee) spend in actual training with James Mitose? How much time did he spend training with William Durbin of Kiyojute Ryu? You see, I think your opinions on this subject may have something to do with the fact that Hassan spent less than a year training under Mitose (before he was incarcerated for murder), and was given a 5th Dan from Durbin, who in turn, added the Koga Ha curriculum to his own system. So, I don't think the idea of EARNED RANK means much here, especially when it is GIVEN so freely.

I was always under the impression that RANK, was basically used for goal setting. Once you reach one goal, you move forward to the another goal, and so on, and so forth.

Durbin's whole lineage is a little "fishy".

 

[Danjo]

I remember back when I was a beginner a Black Belt meant a lot. Then the expansion of TKD struck North America back in the early 80's and they were handing out Black Belts to anyone to get the publicity. Schools had to either find a way to compete with this onslaugth or go under. Unfortunately many of the schools that decided to try and compete lessened their standards, so now you have a bunch of uber-ranks that can't fight their way out of a wet paperbag.

I remember seeing a lot of good schools go under because they could not compete with the flast track that was set up by their competition. And to the beginner who knows nothing about the arts, there is no difference between TKD, Kenpo, Wing Chun or any other style, the only difference they see is a 18 - 24 month journey to Back Belt compared to a period that is usually twice as long.

Yes, I remember when the TKD expansion wildfire took off. I remember around then when some twelve year old came to me and said that he was a black belt and I called him a liar. His mom got really mad at me and told me that he was indeed a black belt etc. and I just walked away in dismay, I had never heard of such a thing. Now, sadly, it's old hat. Now titles mean nothing unless you know where they came from. I remember in the 70's and early 80's that if you told another karateka that you had a brown belt or black belt, that meant a sparring match as soon as you could find the time and space. It wasn't to be mean, but rathe just to see and have some fun. But you didn't dare say that unless you could back it up.

 

[Karazenpo]

Yes, I remember when the TKD expansion wildfire took off. I remember around then when some twelve year old came to me and said that he was a black belt and I called him a liar. His mom got really mad at me and told me that he was indeed a black belt etc. and I just walked away in dismay, I had never heard of such a thing. Now, sadly, it's old hat. Now titles mean nothing unless you know where they came from. I remember in the 70's and early 80's that if you told another karateka that you had a brown belt or black belt, that meant a sparring match as soon as you could find the time and space. It wasn't to be mean, but rathe just to see and have some fun. But you didn't dare say that unless you could back it up.

Geez, you're right Dan, I remember those things too..............but things have changed, oh well.

 

[Karazenpo]

Koga Ha (Is there a real name here?),

I find your viewpoints on this subject interesting. I am under the assumption that you are a student of Nimr Hassan, of Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Kempo?

If this is the case, perhaps you can enlighten me. How much time did Nimr Hassan (aka Terry Lee) spend in actual training with James Mitose? How much time did he spend training with William Durbin of Kiyojute Ryu? You see, I think your opinions on this subject may have something to do with the fact that Hassan spent less than a year training under Mitose (before he was incarcerated for murder), and was given a 5th Dan from Durbin, who in turn, added the Koga Ha curriculum to his own system. So, I don't think the idea of EARNED RANK means much here, especially when it is GIVEN so freely.

I was always under the impression that RANK, was basically used for goal setting. Once you reach one goal, you move forward to the another goal, and so on, and so forth.

A year is giving him a lot of credit, Jeff. I believe Sigung John Bishop once posted that Terry Lee (Hassan) studied under Mitose for about four weeks. I'm sure John will comment when he reads this.

 

[John Bishop]

Koga Ha (Is there a real name here?),

I find your viewpoints on this subject interesting. I am under the assumption that you are a student of Nimr Hassan, of Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Kempo?

If this is the case, perhaps you can enlighten me. How much time did Nimr Hassan (aka Terry Lee) spend in actual training with James Mitose? .

Well, according to his own testimony at Mitose's trial, Terry Lee trained with him Mitose 7 weeks.

 

[GAB]

A year is giving him a lot of credit, Jeff. I believe Sigung John Bishop once posted that Terry Lee (Hassan) studied under Mitose for about four weeks. I'm sure John will comment when he reads this.

Hi Joe,

There is such a complete package of misinformation and confusion that it is hard to really get to the bottom of the controversy of Terry Lee and his association with Mitose.

Lets take for example the idea that James Mitose brainwashed Terry Lee.
OK, How long does it take to brainwash another human being?

The person is learning your technique and forms for a couple of days and the other days of the week you have him in a vat of warm water suspended with no light and no communication to disorient him??? (much sarcasm here)....

There is quite a bit of information that he passed on to Hanshi Bruce, as in a couple of forms that he learned from Mitose.

Maybe he really did not kill and attempt to kill these persons, he plea bargined with his attorney Johnny Cochran as his mouthpiece.

Something similar here regarding O.J. and Terry Lee, Same attorney, same defense. Bigotry and human rights issues boil down to the same on these.

Both innocent or taken advantage of by person or persons known or unknown.

Hardly anyone seems to remember that James, his wife and his son were all charged with the same crime.

Because of his own antics and display to the court and jurors, they were so angry they only convicted James on the crime. The man should have been given an oscar for his performance to lead the case away from his family.

I understand there are several books in the works as we speak about this whole sordid affair. And maybe a documentary that has not been completed or maybe even started other then a few cursory investigations...

Some know that part of the plea bargin for Terry Lee, is he could not talk about his part in this, so... WE all speculate and have our agendas....

Regards, Gary