Sanchin

[Kong Soo Do]

Would the practice of sanchin help those who study taekwondo, in your opinion? If so, in what way? Has sanchin practice help to develop your aikido? If so, in what way?

Are you referring to the Goju Ryu version or the Ueichi Ryu/Pangainoon version? In either regard, the answer is yes. As far as the Ueichi Ryu version, it is a fantastic physical conditioning kata. Trained in the Ueichi Ryu manner, it is also a tremendous body conditioning kata. A normal Dan test can consist of 4 practitioners on all four sides of the testee. As the testee performs the kata, the four practitioners are striking/kicking the testee. This promotes body hardness as well as tests the focus of the testee. It also promotes power from and within the testee.

There is a book by Kris Wilder entitled, "The Way of Sanchin Kata, The Application of Power". It leans more towards the Goju Ryu version, but many elements are applicable to the Ueichi Ryu version as well.

A couple of Ueichi Ryu videos;

 

[seasoned]

in the turning version, how many steps do you take after the turns?

2 turns, three steps.

 

[K-man]

2 turns, three steps.

Same, same! Proper Higaonna version vs the abridged Goju Kai one. :asian:

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

Sanchin can be a great benefit for any Martial Artists. They are a few systems of Karate that practice Sanchin Kata. Having its roots from White crane boxing of Southern China, Sanchin translates as three battles of the mind, body and spirit. It helps the practitioner to stay rooted in stances, improve stamina, and spiritually prepare you for a physical confrontation, improving your mushin.

I recommend those of you to read The Way of Sanchin Kata by Kris Wilder. It's a very informative book.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Same, same! Proper Higaonna version vs the abridged Goju Kai one. :asian:

It is interesting to note that the Uechi Ryu version has some minor differences as well. I'm not sure where and when they came in, mainly with the amount of steps and the number or turns.

 

[K-man]

It is interesting to note that the Uechi Ryu version has some minor differences as well. I'm not sure where and when they came in, mainly with the amount of steps and the number or turns.

Easily explained. Kanbon Uechi and Kanro Higaonna both studied Kung Fu in the Fukien region of China and learned different versions. (See post #31)

 

[Kong Soo Do]

What I meant was that I've seen some variation between the various Uechi Sanchin. But yes, you're correct with the difference between Goju and Uechi. The Kris Wilder book is more towards Goju, but still a good read for the Uechi practitioner.

 

[K-man]

What I meant was that I've seen some variation between the various Uechi Sanchin. But yes, you're correct with the difference between Goju and Uechi. The Kris Wilder book is more towards Goju, but still a good read for the Uechi practitioner.

Sorry. I misread your post. Thought you were talking about variation between styles rather than within styles. Within Goju there are many differences between the different schools as well. :asian:

 

[RobinTKD]

If i wanted to learn sanchin but didn't have an instructor to learn from, how would i go about it?

 

[dancingalone]

If i wanted to learn sanchin but didn't have an instructor to learn from, how would i go about it?

No can do. If you want to learn the basic choreography from out of a book or video, I don't think there's any harm to that so long as you don't actually try to DO the form. If you do, you'll inevitably groove in some bad habits that will have to be unlearned later. There's a little bit of value in knowing the choreography, so you can at least get the mental memorization out of the way until you secure correct instruction in person, assuming they teach the same version you memorized.

 

[RobinTKD]

No can do. If you want to learn the basic choreography from out of a book or video, I don't think there's any harm to that so long as you don't actually try to DO the form. If you do, you'll inevitably groove in some bad habits that will have to be unlearned later. There's a little bit of value in knowing the choreography, so you can at least get the mental memorization out of the way until you secure correct instruction in person, assuming they teach the same version you memorized.

That's what i thought, there's a wado ryu class near to me, do they teach sanchin?

 

[K-man]

That's what i thought, there's a wado ryu class near to me, do they teach sanchin?

It would probably be better if you could find a good Goju class as it is the basis of their whole practice.

 

[dancingalone]

That's what i thought, there's a wado ryu class near to me, do they teach sanchin?

Not in the Wado I'm most familiar with (Eastern US Wado-ryu Fed). Karate styles that have a variant of Sanchin include Goju, Uechi, Isshin, Kyokushin.

 

[RobinTKD]

Well Goju was what I studied very briefly before the instructor emigrated, I'll look to see if I can find another class.

 

[chinto]

Please get good instruction from a KNOWLEDGEABLE SENSEI in a nahate type style before practicing Sanchin kata. doing the kata wrongly, or not in harmany with your age and things may lead to serious health problems!! hypertension is only the least of these!

 

[Black Belt Jedi]

There are many different versions of Sanchin, some of the versions practice and teach it with open hands and others, most likely in Karate teach it closed hands. I have learned the Kanryo Higaonna version of Sanchin where there turns in the kata. The Chojun Miyagi version has a the pattern of going forward and back.

Here is a video of featuring the Martial Art masters demonstrating their version of Sanchin kata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s&list=PLCB270EA3114E6AD7&index=17&feature=plpp_video

 

[K-man]

There are many different versions of Sanchin, some of the versions practice and teach it with open hands and others, most likely in Karate teach it closed hands. I have learned the Kanryo Higaonna version of Sanchin where there turns in the kata. The Chojun Miyagi version has a the pattern of going forward and back.

Here is a video of featuring the Martial Art masters demonstrating their version of Sanchin kata:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s&list=PLCB270EA3114E6AD7&index=17&feature=plpp_video

Interesting to see four masters lined up together to demonstrate one kata in the different ways.

As was said in the commentary, closing the hands is a recent thing (early 1900s). Even the turning form (Higaonna) has been changed by Yamaguchi to a slightly shorter variation. :asian:

 

[punisher73]

There are many different versions of Sanchin, some of the versions practice and teach it with open hands and others, most likely in Karate teach it closed hands. I have learned the Kanryo Higaonna version of Sanchin where there turns in the kata. The Chojun Miyagi version has a the pattern of going forward and back.

From accounts I have read from early Okinawan karatekas, Sanchin was not a "set in stone" practice. In Uechi, for example, you would just go forward until you got to the end of the dojo and then turned and went back. It was not a prescribed amount of steps forward. Also, students would start with both the right or the left side, and not always on one side. I think the number of steps became more concrete to conserve space and Miyagi changed the turns to stepping backwards because it was harder in his opinion to move back and wanted students to practice that.

Here is a question for discussion (someone asked about Sanchin benefitting their TKD practice):

If you took the template of Sanchin. Step foward, punch rear hand etc. And changed the stances & punches to correspond to your own styles way of moving. Then incorporated the Sanchin (ibuki) breathing and dynamic tension in it. Would you reap the same benefits? IMO, Sanchin teaches the core principles of those styles (Naha-te based), so if we picked the core stepping/punching aspects of TKD, do you think it would reinforce those ideas and help out the student in the same way?

 

[dancingalone]

Here is a question for discussion (someone asked about Sanchin benefitting their TKD practice):

If you took the template of Sanchin. Step foward, punch rear hand etc. And changed the stances & punches to correspond to your own styles way of moving. Then incorporated the Sanchin (ibuki) breathing and dynamic tension in it. Would you reap the same benefits? IMO, Sanchin teaches the core principles of those styles (Naha-te based), so if we picked the core stepping/punching aspects of TKD, do you think it would reinforce those ideas and help out the student in the same way?

For Kukkiwon TKD, I suspect not. They train to deliver force through speed and dynamic acceleration foremost.

 

[seasoned]

Pattern of the kata Sanchin is not as important as what is going on inward. The above needs to be thought on...............