Reclaiming Tai Chi

[Appledog50 23]

Most of the recent comments are answered in the OP or the follow-up. And you're right windwalker I've been living in Taiwan for over 20 years. Think about it.

I don't know if this idea of mine will take off or not, but I do know that it isn't based on an issuing sports body so it has a lot more resilience than you may think. The issue with introducing it in a widespread manner here in Taiwan is mainly in contacting a large number of groups. You misunderstood; it's not necessary to force fate. This is a viral idea which is intended to push out people with heterodox beliefs ;-) After all it is just as you said yourself:

Seems like some one claiming " it must be understood that they aren't really practicing "authentic taijiquan". would want to show what they write about,,,,

Is knowing Tai Chi now considered suspect? What a low bar we have set for ourselves in the taijiquan community these days! A ratings system like this is long overdue.

It's funny, what I said is nothing more than what you said, with a number that can't be faked attached to it. Nothing more than the idea you can overlay a ratings system on top of what people are already doing -- and people start complaining. Perhaps, there is no need to "win" at having authentic taijiquan. Perhaps, all is needed is for people who don't have authentic taijiquan to 'lose'.

"Go is not about winning through brilliant moves, it is about losing through bad moves." -- Sakata Eio

This captures the idea that games are frequently decided by the opponent’s mistakes rather than by one’s own spectacular plays; essentially waiting for (or capitalizing on) the other player’s errors.

Interesting I am 20 kyu at push hands, windwalker. What's your rating?

 

[Same Trick90 41]

So if about everyone sucks or actually haven’t a clue about authentic TJQ and the founder of this new system that’s going to reinstate true highest level of TJQ is only a self declared 20 kyu grade because true TJQ is basically lost, what are the chances, and if anyone actually succeeds becoming an authentic TJQ grandmaster/champion in this system, will she/he be respected as such by the rest of the martial arts community …..or is it within the board game community this work ?

 

[Appledog50 23]

So if about everyone sucks or actually haven’t a clue about authentic TJQ and the founder of this new system that’s going to reinstate true highest level of TJQ is only a self declared 20 kyu grade because true TJQ is basically lost, what are the chances, and if anyone actually succeeds becoming an authentic TJQ grandmaster/champion in this system, will she/he be respected as such by the rest of the martial arts community …..or is it within the board game community this work ?

What's your rating? This is the only way you can participate meaningfully now. Either you have a rating *(you have a rating) or you don't *(you refuse to participate in the system). But whether you agree or not or whatever rating you claim to have is immaterial to the fact you either push hands properly or you don't.

If you do, then you have a rating. If you don't then you don't.

Is it really so difficult for you to admit that you do Tai Chi and know how to push hands?

 

[Xue Sheng136 7]

Before i’m asked, i have no rank issued to me by anyone from any organization in Taijiquan, other than my Shifu, who says i am qualified to teach. He got the same thing from his shifu Tung Ying Chieh, who got the same thing from his shifu Yang Chengfu

Ranking means nothing, all it means is toy were given the rank by someone Who claims to be following guidelines they got from an organization whose main goal may only be to make money. And even if it is not, do we know the rank was given honestly.
There are a large number of belt factories here in the USA. This means the belt/rank may or may not have any real meaning whatsoever.

 

[Same Trick90 41]

What's your rating? This is the only way you can participate meaningfully now. Either you have a rating *(you have a rating) or you don't *(you refuse to participate in the system). But whether you agree or not or whatever rating you claim to have is immaterial to the fact you either push hands properly or you don't.

If you do, then you have a rating. If you don't then you don't.

Is it really so difficult for you to admit that you do Tai Chi and know how to push hands?

Ratings and grades are not the same

 

[Appledog50 23]

Before i’m asked, i have no rank issued to me by anyone from any organization in Taijiquan, other than my Shifu, who says i am qualified to teach. He got the same thing from his shifu Tung Ying Chieh, who got the same thing from his shifu Yang Chengfu

Ranking means nothing, all it means is toy were given the rank by someone Who claims to be following guidelines they got from an organization whose main goal may only be to make money. And even if it is not, do we know the rank was given honestly.
There are a large number of belt factories here in the USA. This means the belt/rank may or may not have any real meaning whatsoever.

There is no organization and there is no rank.

There is only the mathematical probability that you are better or worse at fixed step cooperative push hands than I am (or anyone). This is a fact, there is nothing to sign up for. If you do push hands, you have a rating; we just don't know what it is.

So, by way of convenience we start by anchoring the system saying someone of your skill level is about 10k. It doesn't mean you are 10k. But you are something, and the system needs numbers to start calculating probabilities.

If you push hands with someone and you and he are about the same level, he would then by extension be 10k. There's nothing forced about any of it. It's just a statement of reality; like saying you have been training for x number of years.

If the underlying concern is that you don't want to rate yourself in comparison for others, that's fine, don't participate No one can force you to do anything. A lot of Tai Chi people don't even push hands at all just for this reason alone. They are more interested in health, spirituality, etc.

 

[Same Trick90 41]

What's your rating? This is the only way you can participate meaningfully now. Either you have a rating *(you have a rating) or you don't *(you refuse to participate in the system). But whether you agree or not or whatever rating you claim to have is immaterial to the fact you either push hands properly or you don't.

If you do, then you have a rating. If you don't then you don't.

Is it really so difficult for you to admit that you do Tai Chi and know how to push hands?

Push hands wize - I don’t like the “grasp birds tail modeled push hand” method, instead i only prefer and agree on freestyle PH since that’s the sense I get out from my TJQ taolu and zhan-zhuang practices. Any stationary formal push hand I accept upon is single hand push hand, it’s the original and so even found in karate, …..In your system I’m forever a 30 Kyu’er, or no, I can’t even join, I’m a zero kyu, oh wait, that’s just a breath away from shodan.

( I do have from the Chinese wushu association a 2nd Duan, but that’s a grade for pretty mush just about understanding the basics . The road to 2nd Dan in Shotokan karate(JKA) was a whole different challenge)

 

[Same Trick90 41]

There is no organization and there is no rank.

There is only the mathematical probability that you are better or worse at fixed step cooperative push hands than I am (or anyone). This is a fact, there is nothing to sign up for. If you do push hands, you have a rating; we just don't know what it is.

So, by way of convenience we start by anchoring the system saying someone of your skill level is about 10k. It doesn't mean you are 10k. But you are something, and the system needs numbers to start calculating probabilities.

If you push hands with someone and you and he are about the same level, he would then by extension be 10k. There's nothing forced about any of it. It's just a statement of reality; like saying you have been training for x number of years.

If the underlying concern is that you don't want to rate yourself in comparison for others, that's fine, don't participate No one can force you to do anything. A lot of Tai Chi people don't even push hands at all just for this reason alone. They are more interested in health, spirituality, etc.

Who is t controlling the correct 13 postures skill is maintained and exercised ? especially as you kind of mentioned the skill is basically lost .

 

[Appledog50 23]

Push hands wize - I don’t like the “grasp birds tail modeled push hand” method, instead i only prefer and agree on freestyle PH since that’s the sense I get out from my TJQ taolu and zhan-zhuang practices. [...] Who is t controlling the correct 13 postures skill is maintained and exercised ? especially as you kind of mentioned the skill is basically lost .

That's totally fine -- but how do you know you are using tai chi to push hands if you don't know the fixed patterns? However, since you mention grasp bird's tail I assume you know the general pattern! So, you know it, you just don't practice it, right? If you didn't even know it, it would be hard to verify your skills come from tai chi.

Theroetically, if you were placed in a situation to test in fixed step pattern push hands, after a short phase of familiarity (a couple minutes?) you should be able to express taiji skills in that format. If it turns out you cannot, there is a very real question why, as fixed step pattern is orders of magnitude easier to participate in than freestyle.