Realistic training

terryl965

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What do you consider realistic training for today person? Would it be only Self Defense? Would it be more sport side of training or would it be more of learning to be one with your art?

What really makes realistic training? How can it truely be realistic?

Sorry this was a topic of converstation today at the school I teach at.
 

Empty Hands

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Well, the only true "realism" would be to get into those actual situations. No matter how good your training, you will always know somewhere that it is all just an exercise, and thus you won't get that system shock that a real situation brings.

That said, I think a better way to get at this is to include scenarios, fully resistant drills, at least some heavy contact sparring, maybe get outside away from the nice mats and lighting once in a while, and do random attack and weapons drills. This isn't to say that my training includes all this or to the level that I like, but I think that would be a good baseline. I see far too many scripted and compliant drills, no contact sparring, and unvarying environments in the martial arts world. That isn't really realism or self-defense, IMO.

Of course, sometimes going too far in the other direction can bring it's own distortions. The RBSD community for instance excels at scenario training from what I can tell, but they can sometimes also fearmonger and inflate what "real life" tends to bring beyond all common sense. Balance is important, lest we lose perspective.
 

Dao

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I've been held up at knife point at work during the evening. Nothing is going to prepare for a situation like that. It is pretty scary when you punch, kick, pull hair and nothing cause the person any pain. ( Yes the person was on several different drugs) I didn't want to kill the person but that would probably be the only way if it wasn't other people help me get the knife out of her hands. Even when I did front kicks with my weight behind it the person still tried to get up.
Situations like that I wish I had my hand to hand combat training but for sure I wasn't prepared for it.
 

Andy Moynihan

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Training has about as much resemblance to combat as a sculpture does to its model.

Both can be made to look very similar, and you can shape and fine tune the sculpture ever closer to the model all you want, but at the end of the day one is clay and static, and the other has energy, is alive, moving on its own and responding to you.

Anything can be made to work but you have to understand that however much you spar/do scenarios/whatever, the energy with which those incoming strikes/weapons/what-have-you, is going to be different that that same attack launched by someone who is hell bent in his/her mind on *hurting* you. The understanding needs to be there that when it becomes "Go time", you will be dealing not only with their movement but with their *energy* as well. It's very difficult to replicate this exactly with sparring/scenarios, but even just knowing that it will be there can help you prepare.
 

IcemanSK

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I did something with my 9th-7th gup students to prepare them for realistic training last night. With partners facing each other, one would throw a right punch, while other would step back with a hammer block. Then the same attacker would throw a left punch. They'd do this all the way down the row. Then it would be the other's turn. The goal would bbe purely to get them used to blocking a punch & being blocked. (These students are between 8-12 years old). Yeah, your arms are sore, but it toughens your arms & teaches what it feels like to get hit without pads on.
 

LarryR

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At our dojang, when teaching self defense techniques I try to add a sense of realism by helping the student understand what their body's response may possibly be. There's the fight or flight system built in each one of us. It's called the parasympathectic nervous system. This is where you get a flood of endorphomine and adrenalin release into the blood stream. And bam, you either fight like hell or run at speeds you didn't think capable.

I mention this because it is important when developing a trained response to be able to tap into this resource when needed. Another element in realistic training would be environmental awareness. Awareness of your surroundings, the things you can use to aide, shield or protect you from a would be assailant. Of course some of the above listed training parameters as well.

Above all others the last thing you want to do is freeze, a shock to the system that leaves you motionless and thoughtless say something that totally blows you away. And yes it can happen to the best of us when taken out of our element or caught off guard. Thats why we train so that it doesn't, and God forbid that it does, hopefully least we will be able to keep a cool head and survive the outcome.
 

Yoshiyahu

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What do you mean by Hand to Hand Combat training?



I've been held up at knife point at work during the evening. Nothing is going to prepare for a situation like that. It is pretty scary when you punch, kick, pull hair and nothing cause the person any pain. ( Yes the person was on several different drugs) I didn't want to kill the person but that would probably be the only way if it wasn't other people help me get the knife out of her hands. Even when I did front kicks with my weight behind it the person still tried to get up.
Situations like that I wish I had my hand to hand combat training but for sure I wasn't prepared for it.
 

Empty Hands

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There's the fight or flight system built in each one of us. It's called the parasympathectic nervous system.

The sympathetic nervous system, actually. The parasympathetic system is the "rest and digest" system that slows heart rate and directs the body systems towards vegetative functions like digestion. The neurotransmitter is acetylcholine instead of norepinephrine.
 

seasoned

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What do you consider realistic training for today person? Would it be only Self Defense? Would it be more sport side of training or would it be more of learning to be one with your art?

What really makes realistic training? How can it truely be realistic?

Sorry this was a topic of converstation today at the school I teach at.


Good question Terry. I feel, it first has to be self-defense oriented, by teaching realistic techniques such as low kicks, with a variety of open hand, as well as closed hand strikes. There needs to be some contact, but nothing malicious, but you need to have that feeling that it is just them against you on the sparring floor. There are some very good drills that I incorporate, such as corner drill, where you stand in the corner of the room and 8 to 10 students line up and come in one at a time. You cant back up, so it really teaches you to hang in and block. Also circle drill, where you stand in the middle and you are surrounded by students, and your only safe zone is in the middle. As you come into range you can be attacked from all angles. You dont come outside of the circle, and they cant come in. If you are pulled out of the circle and taken down you have to deal with anyone that gets to you before Sensei calls stop. This builds a keen sense of awareness. I am sure there are a lot of DoJos that train like this, the important thing is to train serious and have fun, all at the same time. J
 

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Well, the only true "realism" would be to get into those actual situations. No matter how good your training, you will always know somewhere that it is all just an exercise, and thus you won't get that system shock that a real situation brings.
This brings to mind part of the reason I didn't do very well on the self-defense portion of my yellow belt test over the weekend. I had trouble getting myself into the mindset of "This person is trying to hurt me. I have to defend myself." The simple fact of the matter is that I knew that they weren't trying to hurt me, so my defensive strikes were coming out as merely love-taps (for lack of a better term).

Our self-defense techniques for the yellow belt test are two defenses against a front choke. The first one (and I'll describe it here, because I'm not sure what kind of differences there are from school to school) involves first shocking the opponent (stomp on the foot, rake the kneecap, strike to the ribs, whatever), then bringing the right (in my case) arm over the attacker's arms to strike their right bicep with the point of the elbow. The strike has to be hard enough to break the attacker's hold.

I can do the technique, that's not a problem. However, I had trouble putting the requisite amount of force into the strike to break their grip because I didn't want to hurt them (intentionally or accidentally). Basically, I have the same problem with SD that I have with sparring. To quote my sbum nim: "Mr. Loewen, you're too nice." :)

Maybe I should have asked the red belt who was choking me to really go for it. Maybe I would have had more incentive then. :)
 

level7

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I did something with my 9th-7th gup students to prepare them for realistic training last night. With partners facing each other, one would throw a right punch, while other would step back with a hammer block. Then the same attacker would throw a left punch. They'd do this all the way down the row. Then it would be the other's turn. The goal would bbe purely to get them used to blocking a punch & being blocked. (These students are between 8-12 years old). Yeah, your arms are sore, but it toughens your arms & teaches what it feels like to get hit without pads on.

I wish one step sparring would be more like this...more realistic. Not everyone is going to throw a right hand punch while stepping forward, everytime ;)
 

dancingalone

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I wish one step sparring would be more like this...more realistic. Not everyone is going to throw a right hand punch while stepping forward, everytime ;)

Hopefully we realize those one steps should be practiced against multiple scenarios. If they hold up, keep them. If not, discard them. One steps should be practiced on both sides of your body and you should vary the attack randomly (against a club attack, hook punch, arm grab, etc.)

Since the point to one steps is to hopefully build up some useful auto-response skills, they should be practiced in a live and realistic fashion. If you're only doing a right hand stepping lunge punch as the opening attack, you should probably step back and reconsider why you are doing one steps to begin with.
 

level7

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Hopefully we realize those one steps should be practiced against multiple scenarios. If they hold up, keep them. If not, discard them. One steps should be practiced on both sides of your body and you should vary the attack randomly (against a club attack, hook punch, arm grab, etc.)

Since the point to one steps is to hopefully build up some useful auto-response skills, they should be practiced in a live and realistic fashion. If you're only doing a right hand stepping lunge punch as the opening attack, you should probably step back and reconsider why you are doing one steps to begin with.

Well, this is what we are told to do in class. The "attacker" does nothing but a forward right high punch. Its hard for me to determine what is "TKD" and what is classroom made up stuff. I'm pretty sure one-step is a "TKD" exercise though so maybe that's why we always do it. I try to focus on making my defensive moves neutral, so regardless of where the attack is coming from, I can respond and yet satisfy the exercises' requirements :)
 
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terryl965

terryl965

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One steps are taken from Okinwaw Karate and is a big part of TKD but not the sportside. We tend to practice one steps alot to help our student learn how to react to a punch or kick.
 

level7

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One steps are taken from Okinwaw Karate and is a big part of TKD but not the sportside. We tend to practice one steps alot to help our student learn how to react to a punch or kick.

Is it always a right front punch? Do you practice any variations as standard classroom exercises. In your opinion, is this more for "show"? I think it does provide some value if you were fighting a righty, but if one-steps is all we do in class and we meet a lefty...we won't be that prepared.
 

dancingalone

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Well, this is what we are told to do in class. The "attacker" does nothing but a forward right high punch. Its hard for me to determine what is "TKD" and what is classroom made up stuff. I'm pretty sure one-step is a "TKD" exercise though so maybe that's why we always do it. I try to focus on making my defensive moves neutral, so regardless of where the attack is coming from, I can respond and yet satisfy the exercises' requirements :)

One step, three step, or five step sparring is common in karate derived arts, including TKD. And yes, you start out with the basic exercise, but at some point if you want to train realistically you must modify the drill since as you noticed yourself no one is going to punch you with a right step through punch every time.
 
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