Real ID passes senate

[Crom]

Just found this little worrying tidbit

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3582461.stm

"The International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) is set to agree an international standard for facial recognition on all new passports.

The plans have the backing of the US government and the European Union. It could create a global database of over a billion people by 2015, warned Privacy International"




"With the biometric passport, every country may have its own surveillance system, accumulating fingerprints and face-scans and keeping them for as long as they wish with no regard to privacy or civil liberties.Governments may claim that they are under an international obligation to create national databases of fingerprints and face scans but we will soon see nations with appalling human rights records generating massive databases, and then requiring our own fingerprints and face-scans as we travel,"


We're getting these things in the middle of 2005 in the UK, I'd best renew my passport fast.

 

[raedyn]

related article:

The REAL ID Act: How It Violates U.S. Treaty Obligations, Insults International Law, Undermines Our Security, and Betrays Eleanor Roosevelt's Legacy

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I'm failing to see how this card is any worse privacy-wise from having a social security number that everyone from college applications to Radio Shack ask for. Well, I'm exagerating with the Radio Shack thing, but they both seem to me to functionally be the same thing. Federal ID number right?

 

[bignick]

Come farther Up North. We can always use more good people. :asian:

If I wanted to I could probably make it to Canada in less than two hours....

Winnipeg's a nice town, competed in some shiai there.....anyone got a spare bedroom...???

 

[Ender]

We're moving towards having it implanted on your right hand or forehead...for convenience sake, of course....resistance is futile.

 

[Zepp]

I'm failing to see how this card is any worse privacy-wise from having a social security number that everyone from college applications to Radio Shack ask for. Well, I'm exagerating with the Radio Shack thing, but they both seem to me to functionally be the same thing. Federal ID number right?

No it's worse, as it turns out. The article Raedyn posted a link to explains how.

...Article 17 of the ICCPR - like Article 12 of the Universal Declaration - provides for a right to privacy. Yet, as discussed earlier, the REAL ID Act sets complex federal standards for all drivers' licenses, and compels states to scan all passports and visas and share the massive database of information created -without privacy protections. This collected information will include social security number, phone numbers, residence addresses, and in some cases, medical history (on vision, needed medication, and more)...

...Even as the U.S.'s own allies - such as the European nations who are linked through the European Court of Human Rights - try to connect their international norms with their domestic system, the U.S. blatantly violates these very norms.

It thus risks alienating the very nations on which we have repeatedly been dependent in war-on-terrorism enforcement. These - and many others - are among the nations we most need to cooperate with, and share information and expertise with, if we are to effectively prevent another attack. (This is equally true as it pertains to other national security goals, such as partnering with Europe to challenge China's growing military capabilities, as pointed out in the June edition of The Atlantic Monthly) Unfortunately, the REAL ID Act only moves us even further apart...

...etc, etc.

 

[Tgace]

I'm failing to see how this card is any worse privacy-wise from having a social security number that everyone from college applications to Radio Shack ask for. Well, I'm exagerating with the Radio Shack thing, but they both seem to me to functionally be the same thing. Federal ID number right?

Same here...why would another country give a **** what type of ID system we employ here? And besides flying and some employment issues, when will anybody use it anyway? When Im at work and I ask for ID, as long as its a valid form of ID, I could care less what it is. That is unless I need a drivers license to show a person is licensed to operate a vehicle. Otherwise license, Military ID, Benefit Card, Real ID..whatever. Personally, If Id'ing airline passengers is such a big issue, just demand passports or some form of ID already in use, tie existing databases together or have some sort of voluntary "preferred flyer" program where people consent to background checks and get a card issued..this is just another government pork idea IMO.

 

[ginshun]

related article:

The REAL ID Act: How It Violates U.S. Treaty Obligations, Insults International Law, Undermines Our Security, and Betrays Eleanor Roosevelt's Legacy

quite honestly, I find that article to be pretty much a steaming pile of crap. The jist of it is that this will make things tougher for illegal aliens and that is a bad thing somehow. What a load.


I guess I just fail to see how the US having a national ID is going to anger other countries like the article says it will. Or for that matter how its any of thier buisness anyway.

 

[raedyn]

quite honestly, I find that article to be pretty much a steaming pile of crap. The jist of it is that this will make things tougher for illegal aliens and that is a bad thing somehow. What a load.

I guess I just fail to see how the US having a national ID is going to anger other countries like the article says it will. Or for that matter how its any of thier buisness anyway.

I'm not sure that you read the article very closely. It's not the ID card that's going to piss off other countries. It's the fact that some of the other provisions break international treaties that the US has signed and ratified. The US has agreed to treat refugee claimants a certain way, but this law says they will begin treating refugee claimants in ways that break the agreement - like not allowing federal court judges to temporarily stay a deportation order while appeals are heard.

Do you propose that people trying to immigrate to America the home of "freedom, justice and democracy" should be denied the right to appeal descions made against them? That they should be sent back to countries where they may be beaten or killed for something no fault of their own (like, for instance, being the victim of a rape)? That's not justice. Or do you think that fairness and justice are only rights that only apply to people lucky enough to be born in the USA?

Certainly, any country is free to ignore how outsiders view what they are doing. But it's important to be aware of the potential consequences of those actions. Increasingly, the US is being noticed for not living up to treaty obligations. If the US doesn't follow the rules, why should other countries keep up their end of the bargains?

 

[Ender]

First off, you are agruing from a very weak position. The article you post is, essentially, a editorial. The author evens states " as I will argue,...".

Second, you have to take his points with a grain of salt because he is trying to convince the reader his point of view is the correct one. So what he writes will have speculation, bias, and an added bit of hyperbole. Be careful because what he presents as fact may just be his perspective. When you see phrases such as "It thus risks" or "also undermines" or "it is also the wise and safe thing to do", then you ahould automatically question the author.

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but be aware that posting an editorial article is not the best way to go. And no, I not in favor of a national ID, but I think that argument was lost when we started using our social security number for everything, and thus bore the beast of identity theft.

 

[rmcrobertson]

When one writes, "I will argue," it is not in any sense an announcement that what follows is an editorial or a personal opinion.

It is a signal that the sentence contains a statement of thesis, directly analogous to the statement of a hypothesis in science.

Stating a thesis allows a reader to clearly see what's being claimed, and then to go ahead and, "test," the writer's claim against, a) reality, b) the evidence provided, c) the logic of the argument as a whole.

While making a clear claim does not mean that the claim is valid or the writer to be trusted, it does mean that the writer is doing exactly what they should be doing: providing their readers with a clear statement about what they're trying to say, so that their argument can be evaluated more easily.

Further, a real propagandist does NOT tell you what they're trying to prove. Real propagandists--like our Hizzoner, for example--try to get readers to believe that they have no axe to grind, that they are not presenting any argument at all, but merely presenting a, "common sense," view of, "the way things simply are."

This is either nonsense or a lie, of course.

 

[Satt]

I just finished reading the book "Revenge of the Sith" and this is all starting to sound a little too familiar. Republic anyone???

:jedi1:

 

[Andrew Green]

I just finished reading the book "Revenge of the Sith" and this is all starting to sound a little too familiar. Republic anyone???
:jedi1:

Hey, you guys elected them... TWICE, don't complain about it now... of Republic, I thought you said Rebulican

 

[Makalakumu]

This "Real ID" stuff could really be a great thing...

Yeah, having all of our personal data accessible on a single nationalized database makes it easier for people to steal your identity, but that is because we are using an out-dated technology!

So, lets get with the times!!!!

Enter, the chip...

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/

This wonderful peice of technology could do so many things!

First, our social security number and our government information could directly be implanted into our bodies so that it will never be lost and NEVER stolen.

The second thing is that all of our medical information would be available upon a quick scan of the implantation site.

The third thing is that we could finally do away with paper money altogether and use the chip to electronically access our financial information...no more PINs, IDs, and cards to get lost or stolen! Huzzah!

Forthly, with the chip implanted in every American citizen, we could use GPS coordinates to track them anywhere and at anytime. This is perfect for our wayward children. Imagine a parent with a cell phone/GPS unit, they would always know where their kids were...And no child would ever be abducted again!

Fifthly, criminals, sex offenders, you name it, all of these undesireables could be tracked. The authorities could monitor their physical movements, their bank accounts, their purchases, heck...they could even monitor what these people are checking out at the library! This would be a probation officer's dream come true!

Sixthly, these chips would provide an excellent way to secure electronic data. All computers built in the US could be designed so that logging in would required a swipe of the implanted body area. And all computer data could be downloaded, backed up, and saved on your personal account. You wouldn't ever have to worry about losing anything or computer crashes again!

And seventhly, what a great way to control immigration! Upon legal entrance of this country, a person could be implanted with a "worker's chip" and a quick scan would verify if someone was legal or illegal. Heck, we could have scan posts set up at various high traffic areas in order to verify this information and if the chip wasn't present, the authorities could be immediately and electronically notified.

So, I hope you see, this "Real ID" system really is an important first step toward all of this progress. The establishment of this national data base with one set of rules finally makes the technological switch to a new and more efficient form of technology possible.

Wow! We live in a great world with so many possibilities! The wonders of technology are marvelous and awe-inspiring. America is truly the greatest country in the world because our society is so competitively creative that we can come up with these wonderful solutions to all of these social problems...

"I pledge allegience to the Flag
of the United States of America
And to the Republic for which it stands
One Nation, under God
Indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All."

Amen :asian:

upnorthkyosa

 

[Crom]

laugh or cry?

 

[ginshun]

Maybe that article isn't really that bad and I just don't like the way the guy who wrote it looks.

 

[Ender]

Maybe that article isn't really that bad and I just don't like the way the guy who wrote it looks.

*L..it's still an editorial no matter how they try to dress it up.

 

[TonyM.]

"People get the government they deserve." Confucious

 

[elder999]

"People get the government they deserve." Confucious

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
"Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

"Every country has the government it deserves"
-Joseph de Maistre (1753 - 1821) Written on August 15, 1811

" In a Democracy, People get the government they deserve"-
Alexis de Tocqueville.1805-1859, Democracy in America, 1835-1840

Confucius never said that-he believed in despotism:

"He who exercises government by means of his virtue may be compared to the north polar star, which keeps its place and all the stars turn towards it." Confucius, The Confucian Analects (551 BC - 479 BC)

 

[TonyM.]

I stand corrected.