Now here is a poroperty issue that is real, and potentially dangerous

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,980
Reaction score
1,594
Location
In Pain
Ok, slight hyperbole...but if you do like to decide what to do with your property...

(Crossposted, I am sure the lady won't mind...)

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/s...industry-is-in-state-committee-NEED-YOUR-HELP

A short introduction to the players:

The New York Ciity carriage drivers.
Only a handful, around 200 horses, 65 licensed carriages (like cabs) driving 2 shifts under the strict observation of no less than for agencies.
A list of regulations so long it makes your eyes water - no other group of people dealing with horses has to comply with this much.

The ASPCA
founded to protect the horses in NYC, in the century before last.
Experienced a turn to the extreme end of the mission statement (like asking for a ban on above horse carriages)

NYCLASS
backed by real estate interests, trying to peddle fake antique electric cars instead of the carriages.
Reportedly received nearly half a million in donations from an ASPCA official.
The Carriage drivers occupy 3 stables a couple of blocks away from Central Park on Manhatten's West Side...

Assorted other groups, like WAR (Win Animal Rights) and similarly trending groups.

One figure head is Ms Elisabeth Forel, City employee, one of the most vocal (and a bit loony) faces on the map. And yes, I said loony, because she really does think that only two people oppose her ideal...I did response to her under my FB account that actually had my name on it, she said it was a lovely made up one...so you can see...


Alas, the bill proposed states that the horses are to be removed from the city.

Then the legal owners are to donate or sell them to approved sanctuaries or individuals only.
These buyers are then required to keep said horses for the rest of their natural life and they shall not be worked.
Work is defined in the bill as in anything that requires harness, tack, or the like, basically everything except eating and pooping.


problem:
These horses are pretty valuable as the trained work animals they are. We are talking mid 4 figures, easily.
They are draft and draft crosses (mostly) that meas they are large animals that eat a lot. The upkeep of a pet this size is substantial!

Not to mention that the value of said horses would drop from pretty high to meat....

There are no such sanctuaries. Full Stop.
And private individuals are not lining up to purchase White Elephants right now either.


Another problem:
The supporters of the ban have stated time and time again, that this was only the first step.
Even if you can't stand horses, think the road should be clear of them and anything lesser than a sedan...keep that in mind, that a relative small group (with nothing but time on their hands) is widdling away on the rights to decide what you can and cannot do with your legally purchased property.
If you are a NYS resident, I'd ask you to consider to contact your representative to work AGAINST the ban.

And yeah, I know.. the gun thing....
But I think we can try to keep that out of here and restrict it to the other million and a half threads currently about it on MT, please?
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,246
You know if the animals are being cared for and not abused let them work. They like working they need to work. When I was a K9 handler my dog (I know not a horse but still) would get pissed if I got my uniform on and he didnt get to go to work. My wife said he would bark and whine the whole time I was gone. Plus horse and carriage rides are nice. Every time my wife and I go to Savannah or Charleston SC we take a horse and carriage ride.
 
OP
granfire

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,980
Reaction score
1,594
Location
In Pain
You know if the animals are being cared for and not abused let them work. They like working they need to work. When I was a K9 handler my dog (I know not a horse but still) would get pissed if I got my uniform on and he didnt get to go to work. My wife said he would bark and whine the whole time I was gone. Plus horse and carriage rides are nice. Every time my wife and I go to Savannah or Charleston SC we take a horse and carriage ride.

Like I said, the restrictions are the strictest in the horse industry.
besides, a horse that can't handle the city or does not enjoy the job will wash up quickly (and then it won't go to slaughter,as the pro ban people claim) because it is a highly trained driving horse with the added NYC despooking effect added, sought after by amateurs and small special event outfits!

Among other things - and I am sure those who work outside can understand the significance - the shift hours are set in stone, each horse gets at least 5 weeks off on the farm, paid vacation if you will. There is no working when the weather is too cold (I think below 18 degrees, it's cold but they do have fur and blankets), when it's too rainy or too how (90 degrees and above), have to be offered water and feed...are subject to inspections by 4 groups, one of which seeks to close them down....

If I was quitting when it got above 90 degrees, 6 month of the year nothing would happen! 5 weeks vacation? BRING IT! most horses actually do get closer to 5 month off as the owners rotate their horses.

https://www.facebook.com/ClipClopnyc2012

The drivers are working class people, nothing fancy. They are up against the ritzy urbanites with more time on their hands than they know what to do.

but like you said: It takes that animal wanting to work to get that job done. Not every one, even hand picked before hand passes muster. And by the time the drivers can tell if the animal works out, they already spend a small fortune on licensing fees and other requirements, before it can even set a hoof on the pavement.

I never had the urge to take a carriage ride...but we had horses at home that needed riding and cleaning and stalls needed mucking.


and like the majority of AR people, much of the facts are bogus...
 

billc

Grandmaster
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Messages
9,183
Reaction score
85
Location
somewhere near Lake Michigan
Hmmmm...Improved background checks on the drivers of the carriages and reduce the number of horses per night...yeah...that should take care of the problem...besides, no one needs to take a carriage ride...
 

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,175
Reaction score
849
Location
Kennewick, WA
"If there's even one step we can take to save another horse then surely we have an obligation to try."

Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

Like most extreme positions on any topic the logic gets pretty silly.
 

Tgace

Grandmaster
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
7,766
Reaction score
409
Too many NYC lib's mashed into one space all looking for a "cause". :)


Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
 
OP
granfire

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,980
Reaction score
1,594
Location
In Pain
"If there's even one step we can take to save another horse then surely we have an obligation to try."

Sorry, couldn't help it. :D

Like most extreme positions on any topic the logic gets pretty silly.

:whip:


:lfao:
 

celtic_crippler

Senior Master
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Messages
3,968
Reaction score
137
Location
Airstrip One
I wish these "crusader" types would take up basket weaving and leave the rest of us alone. The world would be a better place and the selection and availability of baskets would improve.
 
OP
granfire

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,980
Reaction score
1,594
Location
In Pain
I wish these "crusader" types would take up basket weaving and leave the rest of us alone. The world would be a better place and the selection and availability of baskets would improve.

well, getting drunk and you-know-what would probably relax them as well...
 

pgsmith

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
483
Location
Texas
I thought this was going to be a serious thread, then I saw that it's about New York! As long as they stay up there, they can do whatever they want. (bunch of loonies!) :)
 
OP
granfire

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,980
Reaction score
1,594
Location
In Pain
I thought this was going to be a serious thread, then I saw that it's about New York! As long as they stay up there, they can do whatever they want. (bunch of loonies!) :)

as much as I would love to agree with you, but I can't, respectfully so.

See, the groups who are pushing for it (aside the ones with the deep pockets oogeling the real estate) are for animal rights.
And they have stated time and time again that they would not stop there. They are dangerous.

Rather subversive, thy have, with the help of national collection groups posing as animal welfare advocates, like HSUS as well as the ASPCA (not national, but certainly funded that way) and of course out PETA friends managed to weasel their way into animal control positions. Some of these people, now the arm of the law, have cause great trouble for many people already and it is only going to get worse. You get sucked into the system, even if it's not grounded on facts, you will have to spend much time and money to clear your name. Being law abiding only protects you so far.

Also...some of these people are positively unhinged, calling for bodily harm for the humans involved, following them to their places of residence, threatening families, etc...I have been told that even the Newtown tragedy was not off limits to them, accusing customers taking carriage rides with their children of raising the next mass shooter. The drivers were worried after hearing that families from Connecticut had planned a trip to the Big Apple to get away from the media frenzy could be attacked in like manner. Acting despicable, even in front of children is all in a ay's work for these folks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_iO8LQ7lmA&feature=youtu.be


Despicable bunch of people.

this is the bill
http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/S5013-2011


I know you were :) about it. But it really affects everybody....

:)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest Discussions

Top