RBSD And TMAs: Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?

[D.G.C.F.S.]

See, this is what I like....a good discussion with civil debating. I may not agree or disagree with everything that is said on these forums, but I always try, and yes, its hard at times, to stay somewhat civil. Makes fora much nicer thread.




Likewise, I didn't replace what I have learned either, just added some things in. There are so many things out there, that to not look at everything is a dis-service to ones training. Hey, I'm not ashamed to say that I took something from art X. If it works for me and I can use it, hell yeah I'm going to take it.

There are things in Kenpo that I'd probably never use if my life depended on it, but someone else may find value in it and be able to make it work. Just because I don't care for it, let someone else decide if it'll work for them. Some may ask, "Well, if you know it wont work, why teach it?" Like I said, if it didnt work for me, how do I know it wont for them. So, now we have this: What worked 50yrs ago may not work today. Some may find it odd that a defense that worked then, doesnt work now. However, I wouldn't say that the past is no good in the present. So take Kenpo or Kaju. 2 arts that have been around a while. I'd be hard pressed to say that those folks today cant defend themselves.



My bad. I should've read further down, as I just read the first few lines and I misunderstood.





I don't believe I have said that you were a fake, a paper dragon or anything like that. So, in addition to the folks you mention, are there civilians in your school, that say that it works for them? Again, I'm looking to hear about the average person, not military. So in a round about way, this goes back to question #1. I don't know, but it seems to me, that unless it's taped, there're written statements or something on a site, then the word of someone is no good.

Ok I see your point on the last one? video would be better than a written statement even If it is from a police officer or military, Martial Arts Instructor. I will get video statement from them in the future.
Thank you for a GREAT DEBATE SIR.

 

[arnisador]

Ok, back to reading all the infomercials and mindless blather that seem to be flooding the site lately. Buy some ad space and stop being leaches already, geeze.

Hey, it's getting people to discuss martial arts despite the unfortunate SNR. Don't knock it!

I think you can make almost anything effective if well-trained. It's not about the techniques as much as the training. Boxing works because it has to work or you get knocked out. I've seen people train Uechi-ryu like tai chi and I've seen people train it like Kyokushin. The RBSD movement is a good reminder to test it out in as real conditions as can be safely done. After that, I've seen people use monkey style kung fu very effectively despite the fact that it looks silly to me.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Wow, thank you, sir, for all your oh so great wisdom and putting all us common folk in our place. Considering he didn't know your credentials, and "dojo" is a commonly accepted term throughout most arts, his use of the term would have been acceptable to the less pompous. WKF could stand for both "World Kickboxing Federation" and "World Karate Federation" both of which are known and respected world-wide and have been around since the 1970's. You seem to be so knowledgable in the arts. I figured you would have heard of them. It must have just slipped your mind. Oh, and since you seem to be an individual worthy of such demanding respect I should probably let you know that his military credentials are respectable, documented, verifiable, and attainable. "Go Fish." Do you slam all former service members now teaching martial arts or just the ones that teach "reality based systems"? You also wanted proof that he teaches full time and makes a good living at it. Again, that is also documented and verifiable (affirmative on both). If you want it so bad... "go fish." Why are you so insistant on seeing all this proof anyway? It's just a forum. Oh, and speaking of the forum... you should go re-read the rules as well... although based on your post... I'm sure your hypocracy knows no bounds. I'm sure you will no doubt want the last word here oh wise one but I'll go ahead and let you know that I will neither dignify anymore posts from you with a response nor will I return back to this thread. Good day to you all. May you live and train well.

Do I slam all former service members? No. Just the ******** artists.

"The proof is posted on his website". Great. I'll go and build myself a website that says how I personally trained Jesus in resurection-fu. It'll be real because my website said so. Excuse me if I tend to not take a newb's opinion on anything.

I will however point out, you're a liar. You came back.

Ravioli-Z

Last Activity: Today 12:00 PM
Current Activity: Viewing Thread RBSD And TMAs: Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?
​

Yay. Another sockpuppet/mouthpiece.

No offense mate but given you have been a member here for less than 2 weeks, perhaps you may be a contributor to the mindless blather to which you refer.

It seems strange that all of a sudden there are 3 or 4 people on this forum that seem to all be related to you in some way. Something fishy is going on here.

Cheers
Sam:asian:

It's the usual. BSer comes in, posts about their hot, new ****, gets called on it, and a bunch of 1-post wonders sign up, tell us how great the thing is and how we're so ungrateful for it all, then vanish into the ether never to be hard from again. Of course, this just proves it's all retreaded cow dung and not anything worth a spit.

 

[The Last Legionary]

Hey, it's getting people to discuss martial arts despite the unfortunate SNR. Don't knock it!

I think you can make almost anything effective if well-trained. It's not about the techniques as much as the training. Boxing works because it has to work or you get knocked out. I've seen people train Uechi-ryu like tai chi and I've seen people train it like Kyokushin. The RBSD movement is a good reminder to test it out in as real conditions as can be safely done. After that, I've seen people use monkey style kung fu very effectively despite the fact that it looks silly to me.

I tend to disagree. Only the "unproven" needs to be tested. I don't need to go find a street fight to get into to find out if my techniques work. I also am smart enough to know that adding all this "safety gear" changes the equation. A RedMan suit, padded weapons, and "do not hit" zones makes for a safe environment. It doesn't make for a "Real" environment. You can angle in towards "real", you can take it close, but you don't get real until it is real, and then it's too late.

Also, I don't care what Vunak or Vlad or Voldimir can do, did do, might do, or have done, when === They aren't the one doing the teaching ===.

Having a couple of SF guys train with you is not the same thing as having an actual DOD contract. Hell, I've "trained cops" and "trained military" too. Sounds impressive, alot of it does, and it's all resume padding and "impress the mundanes" stuff.

As to monkey style, a couple of good Mexican beers can simulate the effects of years of training. Including the resulting headache and strange body pains. :rofl:
A better use of my money than the latest hot advert in Lack_Belt Magazine.

To answer the OP question, TMA is better, if trained under an experienced instructor who really understands the art, if trained with a mind able to really see it. Otherwise, it's just fancy dance steps with a monthly bill.

 

[MJS]

Ok I see your point on the last one? video would be better than a written statement even If it is from a police officer or military, Martial Arts Instructor. I will get video statement from them in the future.
Thank you for a GREAT DEBATE SIR.

Just to clarify what I meant by this:

"I don't know, but it seems to me, that unless it's taped, there're written statements or something on a site, then the word of someone is no good."

I meant that this is what certain groups of people usually use as their basis as to whether or not something works or has worked or can work. If I say, "Yeah, I was attacked and defended myself with a 360 degree jump spinning hook to the head! KOd that guy on the spot!" some will flat out call me a liar and tell me that its impossible that that kick worked, and they'd demand proof of video.

My point is, I don't care about video. I don't care if someone thinks my arts are garbage. I like them, and I know what works/doesn't work for me. If I used an eye jab and was able to get the hell away from the bad guy, that worked for me, yet certain people would again call my a liar and say that if it isn't done in the cage, then it doesnt work. As long as I know it worked for me, thats all I care about. If someone doesnt want to believe me because I have no tape, thats fine.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

Just to clarify what I meant by this:

"I don't know, but it seems to me, that unless it's taped, there're written statements or something on a site, then the word of someone is no good."

I meant that this is what certain groups of people usually use as their basis as to whether or not something works or has worked or can work. If I say, "Yeah, I was attacked and defended myself with a 360 degree jump spinning hook to the head! KOd that guy on the spot!" some will flat out call me a liar and tell me that its impossible that that kick worked, and they'd demand proof of video.

My point is, I don't care about video. I don't care if someone thinks my arts are garbage. I like them, and I know what works/doesn't work for me. If I used an eye jab and was able to get the hell away from the bad guy, that worked for me, yet certain people would again call my a liar and say that if it isn't done in the cage, then it doesnt work. As long as I know it worked for me, thats all I care about. If someone doesnt want to believe me because I have no tape, thats fine.

Yes Sir I agree with that statement. point is that no matter what we or any one else say it will always not satisfies every one what works for you may not work for me ect.... Thank you for the respect and conversation
I*BOW*

 

[terryl965]

I tend to disagree. Only the "unproven" needs to be tested. I don't need to go find a street fight to get into to find out if my techniques work. I also am smart enough to know that adding all this "safety gear" changes the equation. A RedMan suit, padded weapons, and "do not hit" zones makes for a safe environment. It doesn't make for a "Real" environment. You can angle in towards "real", you can take it close, but you don't get real until it is real, and then it's too late.

Also, I don't care what Vunak or Vlad or Voldimir can do, did do, might do, or have done, when === They aren't the one doing the teaching ===.

Having a couple of SF guys train with you is not the same thing as having an actual DOD contract. Hell, I've "trained cops" and "trained military" too. Sounds impressive, alot of it does, and it's all resume padding and "impress the mundanes" stuff.

As to monkey style, a couple of good Mexican beers can simulate the effects of years of training. Including the resulting headache and strange body pains. :rofl:
A better use of my money than the latest hot advert in Lack_Belt Magazine.

To answer the OP question, TMA is better, if trained under an experienced instructor who really understands the art, if trained with a mind able to really see it. Otherwise, it's just fancy dance steps with a monthly bill.

Man take a pill and relax it is all good, remember we are all together in the arts as a whole. May the bottle never be empty so you can have another once in a while.

 

[Dark Gift Concepts]

TMA is great for kids and Adult's who have never tried anything and want to feel like part of the Martial World. TMA also teaches great values, respect for your self and other's, patience, and great fundimentals.
I think RBSD prepare's you for real world, advanced thinking killer types. So I think TMA is best to enter, but once you need life saving skills RBSD is the way to go. Speaking from someone who was into TMA for 10 years

 

[The Last Legionary]

Credential Check

"Malvin Traylor"
Google turns up 15 results.
Your website, a Youtube video, and some directories.
Nothing really of note.
No mention of any championships, or what, other than his own.
One would think a "big well known org" would you know, mention their champions. Hell, I can find Pro-Wrestling champions going back to the 1930's!

"Eric Bentzen"
Turns up a few thousand, mostly about someone who makes fonts and plays chess.
Refining this to "Eric Bentzen" and martial
drops us to 11 results.
A blog, ebay, their own website, and some forum discussion here and at Defend.

For all the hype, that's the best that can be found out of an index of over a trillion pages going back 20 years.

I'm not impressed.

 

[Sukerkin]

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[D.G.C.F.S.]

I tend to disagree. Only the "unproven" needs to be tested. I don't need to go find a street fight to get into to find out if my techniques work. I also am smart enough to know that adding all this "safety gear" changes the equation. A RedMan suit, padded weapons, and "do not hit" zones makes for a safe environment. It doesn't make for a "Real" environment. You can angle in towards "real", you can take it close, but you don't get real until it is real, and then it's too late.

Also, I don't care what Vunak or Vlad or Voldimir can do, did do, might do, or have done, when === They aren't the one doing the teaching ===.

Having a couple of SF guys train with you is not the same thing as having an actual DOD contract. Hell, I've "trained cops" and "trained military" too. Sounds impressive, alot of it does, and it's all resume padding and "impress the mundanes" stuff.

As to monkey style, a couple of good Mexican beers can simulate the effects of years of training. Including the resulting headache and strange body pains. :rofl:
A better use of my money than the latest hot advert in Lack_Belt Magazine.

To answer the OP question, TMA is better, if trained under an experienced instructor who really understands the art, if trained with a mind able to really see it. Otherwise, it's just fancy dance steps with a monthly bill.

Sir you have NO CLUE who I am or what I do.
Sir you are just A PAPER DRAGON, I will no longer debate with you and your lack of understanding.
I simply stated what I think and have experience. So Sir go head and go to your Hall and work on your forms katas or what ever you prefer to call it .
I am not new to the Martial Arts world , you Sir live in a box and in that box I think "you think you are GOD" get a clue please Sir.
Also please build a website for yourself, That way at least there is INFO on you and your school you train at and who your instructors are, that way your credentials are more than
GOLD KEY CLUB
SITE FAN
I*bow* out of embarrassment for you.

 

[Kacey]

TMA is great for kids and Adult's who have never tried anything and want to feel like part of the Martial World. TMA also teaches great values, respect for your self and other's, patience, and great fundimentals.
I think RBSD prepare's you for real world, advanced thinking killer types. So I think TMA is best to enter, but once you need life saving skills RBSD is the way to go. Speaking from someone who was into TMA for 10 years

And for those of us who don't think we need RBSD for "real world, advanced thinking killer types"? I understand what you're saying - but TMAs work just fine; they certainly work fine for a friend of mine who tracks bail jumpers, and has been attacked by a fair number... and the bail jumpers have always lost.

There are only so many ways the body can move, and so many techniques that one will respond with when attacked - the key is mindset - and that mindset can come from any style, TMA or RBSD, as long as the instructor knows what s/he's doing and how to teach it. Also, there are people who would be scared off by such training - no matter how long they've spent in TMAs. Different strokes for different folks.

Also - not everyone trains primarily for self-defense. Some people train for health, for fitness, for motivation (if you work out alone and don't show up, no one notices... but if you have a training partner or class mates, who expect you, you're more likely to go), for mental stimulation - there are all sorts of reasons that have nothing to do with self-defense.

Variety is the spice of life - why tell other people they must abide by your choice of flavor simply because you've found your favorite?

 

[Grenadier]

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[D.G.C.F.S.]

Sir I am trying, I hope you see what other are also doing.
it is a two way street Sir

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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[Xue Sheng]

I will this and only and then I hope the thread gets the lock it deserves

I have had many sifus over the years and I just say they are all CMA but I do suppose you could divide them in to TMA and RBSD since one is Police/Military Sanda. My taijiquan Sifu has been at taiji for over 50 years and anyone would be hard pressed to lay a hand on him of course that is not RBSD by the standards of some in this post so I guess they are convinced it is useless and if that is true that is incredibly sad because you would be missing the point and IMO pointing at some other style and belittling it in order to make yours look better since you are likely not 100% confident in what you are stating.

My Sanda Sifu is very good and very well trained and he has the greatest respect for the skill of someone like my Taiji Sifu and my Sanda Sifu is also rather impressed with Xingyiquan and Bagua too. All are in his opinion quite effective, if trained properly.

He has said of Sanda that it is not the most dangerous or most deadly MA (like I get the feeling some here are trying to say all RBSD is) he does say it is just a real quick and easy way to learn how to hurt someone very badly, which is why he teaches few. But then he is Chinese and maybe it is just a cultural thing that he respects other masters of other styles and has enough confidence in his own style to not feel the need to belittle others.

I'm done, I leave this old over done “my art is better than your art” post to the sales pitch that it is and hopefully a lock.

 

[Ravioli-Z]

Do I slam all former service members? No. Just the ******** artists.

"The proof is posted on his website". Great. I'll go and build myself a website that says how I personally trained Jesus in resurection-fu. It'll be real because my website said so. Excuse me if I tend to not take a newb's opinion on anything.

I will however point out, you're a liar. You came back.

Ravioli-Z

Last Activity: Today 12:00 PM
Current Activity: Viewing Thread RBSD And TMAs: Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?
​

Yay. Another sockpuppet/mouthpiece.



It's the usual. BSer comes in, posts about their hot, new ****, gets called on it, and a bunch of 1-post wonders sign up, tell us how great the thing is and how we're so ungrateful for it all, then vanish into the ether never to be hard from again. Of course, this just proves it's all retreaded cow dung and not anything worth a spit.

I will humor myself and go back on my word just for the sake of pointing out yet more flaws in your arrogant arguments. You may be a great martial artist, and if you are, I congratulate you. I don't care if you are or aren't. I don't need proof nor do I care if you impress me or not. You, however, have already dubbed me a liar and I have made no claims other than his credentials are documented (and I never said that the proof was "on the website." Until you prove me wrong, sir, your name calling is just more arrogant and/or insecure rhetoric. If you are using "Google" as your definitive argument then you are not only arrogant and possibly insecure... but ignorant as well. I hold everyone in the martial arts community in the highest respect (every style)... until they prove me otherwise. You, sir, have proven to be nothing but arrogant and condescending so far and the only thing you have proven to me is your own ignorance. I don't care what rank you hold on this forum... that qualifies you as an expert in nothing and certainly puts you in no position to call anyone else a liar or a newbie when your supporting evidence is laughable at best. Go ahead and scream that I am a newbie on this forum, go ahead and tell me that I haven't shown you MY credentials, go ahead and make any claims of me that you want and continue the pointless insults and attempted slander... the bottom line is... your attitude on this forum, from what I have seen on this thread, is completely contrary to what martial arts stand for. No one here owes you a single shred of proof of anything and we certainly don't need your approval or respect... because you are a disgrace to the martial arts community.

 

[MJS]

I will humor myself and go back on my word just for the sake of pointing out yet more flaws in your arrogant arguments. You may be a great martial artist, and if you are, I congratulate you. I don't care if you are or aren't. I don't need proof nor do I care if you impress me or not. You, however, have already dubbed me a liar and I have made no claims other than his credentials are documented (and I never said that the proof was "on the website." Until you prove me wrong, sir, your name calling is just more arrogant and/or insecure rhetoric. If you are using "Google" as your definitive argument then you are not only arrogant and possibly insecure... but ignorant as well. I hold everyone in the martial arts community in the highest respect (every style)... until they prove me otherwise. You, sir, have proven to be nothing but arrogant and condescending so far and the only thing you have proven to me is your own ignorance. I don't care what rank you hold on this forum... that qualifies you as an expert in nothing and certainly puts you in no position to call anyone else a liar or a newbie when your supporting evidence is laughable at best. Go ahead and scream that I am a newbie on this forum, go ahead and tell me that I haven't shown you MY credentials, go ahead and make any claims of me that you want and continue the pointless insults and attempted slander... the bottom line is... your attitude on this forum, from what I have seen on this thread, is completely contrary to what martial arts stand for. No one here owes you a single shred of proof of anything and we certainly don't need your approval or respect... because you are a disgrace to the martial arts community.

I am going to guess one of two things here. Either you totally missed the last 2 mod notes in this thread, in which case I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, or you saw them, didn't care and had to post a reply like this.

You see, you're new to this forum as well. So like I have already pointed a few newbies out, I suggest you read the forum rules, and think a bit before you post. I'm saying this as a member, NOT a mod, due to the fact that a mod can't moderate a thread they're involved in. This is simply a member to member nudge, nothing more.

So, before comments like this, get this thread closed, perhaps you should reword some of your posts.

Mike

 

[CoryKS]

So if someone, say a police officer, trains in a TMA and applies it to his job, and it works, doesn't that by definition make it an RBSD?

RSVP, and do it ASAP because this thread is going to be KIA PDQ, IMO.

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

LOOK folks I am not here to start Sh%^$t, just voicing my opinion, nothing more, For the most part this is an awesome thread great debates and views..
BUT they are folks that are MEAN, NASTY ECT... and I have not behaved in the best fashion ether, FOR THAT I AM SORRY, I should just walked away.... from those LOUD MOUTHES . SO lets have a GOOD day and bring the debates to the spirit of MARTIAL ARTS.:angel: "JUST KIDDING on been a angel"

 

[D.G.C.F.S.]

So if someone, say a police officer, trains in a TMA and applies it to his job, and it works, doesn't that by definition make it an RBSD?

RSVP, and do it ASAP because this thread is going to be KIA PDQ, IMO.

No SIR NO one said T.M.A. would not work that was not the thread,
"Does One Prepare You Better Than The Other?"
and I said yes R.B.M.A. would prepare you better, NOT that T.M.A. was useless, so there it is..
train how you fight, fight like you train