ranking

[RED]

Can someone explain Belt ranks to me? I held the rank of Red belt (3rd grade) in an ITF school. The ranks went belt then stripe then next belt.

White belt
gold stripe on the white belt
gold belt

The last school (WTF) didn't have stripes, but I was called a second Blue belt but my certificate said I had a 5th blue belt.

The school I attend now (WTF) has four or five stripes on the belts. I was given a Brown belt no stripes for my previous experiences. I think the next rank is a half red and black belt. what is the meaning of the stripes? I forgot to ask the instructor last class and I wont make it for the rest of the week that is why I'm posting here.

Thanks

 

[Kacey]

I can't explain WTF - that varies by organization - but ITF is as follows:

10th gup white belt
9th gup high white belt (white belt, yellow stripe)
8th gup yellow belt (yellow = gold; depends on where you buy the belt)
7th gup high yellow belt (yellow belt, green stripe)
6th gup green belt
5th gup high green belt (green belt, blue stripe)
4th gup blue belt
3rd gup high blue belt (blue belt, red stripe)
2nd gup red belt
1st gup high red belt (red belt, black stripe)
1st Dan black belt - goes up to 9th Dan
1st-3rd Dan black belt = novice
4th-6th Dan black belt = expert
7th-9th Dan black belt = master instructor
9th Dan black belt = grandmaster

If you don't know why your current organization gave you a brown belt, you'll have to ask them. It would help if you knew how many gup (grade) ranks they have, and how close you are to black belt. I also can't explain why a red belt would be a 3rd gup in an ITF school. Here and here are a couple of ITF websites that may help you.

 

[RED]

My bad on the 3rd, it was 2nd grade. I haven't held that rank since '93. The instructor felt my knowledge is comparable to the Brown belt in this school. I understand ITF ranks thoroughly. I don't understand the belt ranking system with several stripes between belts. I will ask my instructor the next time I see him, but I thought I would post it here too.



The TKD legacy site was very interesting thanks.

 

[Last Fearner]

what is the meaning of the stripes? I forgot to ask the instructor last class and I wont make it for the rest of the week that is why I'm posting here.

Hi Red!

Asking your instructor is the best way to find out why your school uses stripes, and what the specific meaning for each stripe is. I don't know how much you already grasp about the rank structure, but for those who read this with no concept whatsoever, here is a bit of a general insight that might help to clear up the confusion. One of the initial goals of a student should be to work toward accomplishing a clear understanding of the basics with the ability to effectively demonstrate their application. This would be the point of completing the foundation of your training, and is often represented by awarding the student a 1st Degree Black Belt (A black belt with one stripe).

In the case of a Black Belt rank, the stripe represents a "dan" or degree which marks the beginning of the main course of study throughout one's lifetime. Each stripe on the black belt thereafter is earned through time in rank, knowledge gained, and proficiency of abilities demonstrated. Degrees of the Black Belt are generally considered permanent accomplishments once they are earned, and become a part of your credentials as you progress over the years.

In contrast to this, the color belt ranks are all temporary, and can change by being promoted, or demoted. They are called "geup" (or gup) which means "grade." The grades are increments in the overall process to becoming a Black Belt. They are divisions of the complete curriculum which makes it easier for instructors (especially beginner instructors) to prepare lesson plans, and for students to retain the information, and make gradual progress through the setting of smaller goals.

Since the "Dan" ranking system of the Black Belt is often set up in 9 divisions (1st Dan through 9th Dan), the balance of the color belt is usually divided by nine levels as well. The white belt, which is sometimes referred to as a "10th grade" is a student who really has not yet been graded, thus many Koreans call it "Mu Geup" meaning "No Grade." The first progression is to the 9th Grade (Gu Geup) which is usually represented by a yellow belt. The following grade numbers get smaller as the rank gets higher (9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, & 1st Geup). Which color of belts that are used to represent each of these grades is up to the instructor, or the organization which issues certificates.

A different color belt may represent each single grade without the use of stripes. In some cases, instructors or organizations might choose to use fewer belts, and add a stripe for each grade in between the next belt. For example, a plain yellow belt could represent the 9th grade, whereas the yellow belt with one stripe could represent the 8th, two stripes - the 7th, and three stripes - the 6th grade. Following that, a plain green belt could represent the 5th grade, with one stripe - the 4th, two stripes - the 3rd, and three stripes - the 2nd. A Brown or Red Belt could represent the 1st grade, and the next step would be Black Belt. In this example, all nine grades are tested and certified, but only three color belts are used.

For those schools and organizations that prefer to change the color of the belt for each grade, a stripe on the belt often represents the level of proficiency at the time of the test (similar to a school grade of A+, A, A-, B+, B, B-, etc.). In this case, a plain belt might represent a student who just barely passed. One stripe shows the student did good, two stripes stands for a really well done performance, and three stripes would mean an excellent score. At the next test, a student with three stripes should pass to the next color belt with no problem, but one who has no stripes will probably need to work much harder, and make significant improvement. It is possible that this student will be upgraded to a three stripe belt before testing again for the full grade advancement to a new color belt.

Some schools will give every student who passes a test the plain belt with no stripes. Then, the student will be awarded a stripe for having good attendance each week prior to the next test, and for completing each segment of the lesson plan for the next promotion. In this instance, the student would be required to obtain all necessary stripes (three, four, five, or six - depending on the school's requirements) before being eligible to test.

These are some of the reasons for using stripes. As is often debated, a student could learn Taekwondo without stripes, without color belts, or even without the use of belts at all, but many (myself included) feel that there is sufficient benefit in the use of this modern tool of goal setting, and visual reward for accomplishing said goals, that we strive to teach students the value while balancing with humility and understanding. Only those who misuse and abuse this concept will suffer in the long run. Students should ignore any abuse, and focus on what is important - - successful training of the mind, body, and spirit.

Check with your instructor to see if any of the above reasons fit your school's purpose for stripes. If there is a different reason, please share it with us here!

Thanks,
CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[wade]

USAT school go white, yellow, green, blue, red and black. Anytime you see a USAT school with a brown belt you can believe it's all about the money. In national competition they are not allowed to wear brown belts because in WTF TKD there is no such rank. There is in Karate, Kenpo, and a lot of other systems but not in WTF Taekwondo. Oh wait, did I mention it was all about the money, so yeah, is some school they do have brown belts. Is it legal, no. Do they still do it yes. It's like when you see a colored belt with a whole bunch of stripes (tape) on them. You can just bet that everyone of those stripes were a test and that they were payed for. It just sad................

 

[RED]

USAT school go white, yellow, green, blue, red and black. Anytime you see a USAT school with a brown belt you can believe it's all about the money. In national competition they are not allowed to wear brown belts because in WTF TKD there is no such rank. There is in Karate, Kenpo, and a lot of other systems but not in WTF Taekwondo. Oh wait, did I mention it was all about the money, so yeah, is some school they do have brown belts. Is it legal, no. Do they still do it yes. It's like when you see a colored belt with a whole bunch of stripes (tape) on them. You can just bet that everyone of those stripes were a test and that they were payed for. It just sad................

I don't think they (instructors) are in it for the money. It's a non-profit orginization. They (school) have some of the best instructors I've been around (because it's not about the money). I do know what you are talking about. I've been to a few Mc Dojangs. It's sad to say the least.

Mr. "last fearner",
Great post, full of insight. I will ask about the ranking system and post. I I know I will need to know Palgue 5, 6, 7, to test for the next level. I know up to #6 now. I'm thinking the stripes represent the forms known.

I wish someone would standardise Tae Kwon Do ranking between WTF and ITF and others.

The best rank is when your white belt turns black from years of use. Maybe that is the unofficial standard.

Thanks

 

[jim777]

I my school you'll see stripes of colored tape around the edges of the belt signifying promotions. High orange, high green, high blue at any rate. But the promotion tests are $15 dollars no matter the belt rank (below black, at any rate) and lessons are 2 bucks each. No association fees, no monthly anything; you bring your 2 bucks when you get to class, and they mark you as 'present'. If I saw someone with 5 or 6 peices of tape on the edge of their belt, I'd probably just stare in awe for a second until I remembered that that's just impolite

jim

 

[wade]

If I ever had a student wear his white belt so long that it turned black we would be talking about cleanliness. Ewwwww, just the thought of some one wearing anything that long starts to make you wonder what else they wear that might never get cleaned. YUCK!

Red, if you are in a WTF school then a look at Kacey's list of belts ranks. That is the way a WTF ranking system goes. There are no exceptions unless the instructor is adding his own ranks to it. A 5th Gup is a Green belt level in the WTF. I think the reason of the difference in Gup rank and the actual color of the belt is so that the brown Belt can be factored in. Since red belts are 1st and 2nd Gups and Blues are 3rd and 4th Gup you run out of place to add the extra brown belt ranks so......................

I have no doubt that you have good and honorable instructors but if their Master says add the brown belt rank then they are going to do it weather it is right or wrong. That's fine too, it is their school. But if you ever go to a national competition guess what, you will need to leave that brown belt at home because they are not going to let you play while you are wearing it.

 

[Last Fearner]

Thanks, Red. I'm glad I could be of help. As I said, there are many reasons for using stripes, and only your instructor knows for sure!

On another point, I prefer not to disagree too much with others here as I don't want to argue or be at odds with other members, but I feel I must point out to novice readers that Wade's comments reflect a specific problem that is not present in every school that uses a full color belt system, or uses stripes.

Here is a different perspective from my viewpoint on the following:

USAT school go white, yellow, green, blue, red and black. Anytime you see a USAT school with a brown belt you can believe it's all about the money.

To my understanding, since USAT is the new governing body for Olympic Competition in the United States (Replacing the USTU), any school owner may register as a member, and have his or her students registered as members. This is for competition purposes, and does not affect the curriculum taught in that school, nor the belt ranks used. It never did for all of us who were members of the old USTU as well.

Also, any color belt may be exchanged in place of ones listed in Wade's post. For example, if an instructor did not like the use of a "red belt," he could simply award a brown belt in its place for the same grade. No difference in cost, no extra test fee, just a different color. Therefore, one should not assume that to see a student with a "brown belt" means that there is something wrong.

In national competition they are not allowed to wear brown belts because in WTF TKD there is no such rank. There is in Karate, Kenpo, and a lot of other systems but not in WTF Taekwondo.

First of all, if things have changed since I was a Referee at national events in the 90's, let me know, but there have always been belts of all colors, including brown. It is the grade of the competitor that is recorded, not the belt color. If current rules prohibit the wearing of certain colors, then I am not aware of that.

Furthermore, there are technically no belts in "WTF Taekwondo." The WTF was originally formed as an International link between the Kukkiwon, and those who trained outside of Korea. It was intended to provide resources, rank certification for Black Belts only, and management of sport competition. It has recently been shifted to only handle the sport aspect, but has nothing to do with the issuing of ranks anymore, and never had anything to do with certifying color belt ranks or what material is taught to color belts in any school.

... so yeah, is some school they do have brown belts. Is it legal, no. Do they still do it yes.

Is it legal?? Well, there are no laws prohibiting any rank color. It is perfectly legal, and no one I ever met in Korea ever objected to brown belts (many use them). The U.S. Chung Do Kwan, based on the oldest and original Kwan from 1944, uses both Brown and Red belts (Authorized by WTF recognized, Kukkiwon certified 9th Dan Grandmaster Edward Sell). The Jidokwan that I spent 15 years with uses both Brown and Red belts.

It's like when you see a colored belt with a whole bunch of stripes (tape) on them. You can just bet that everyone of those stripes were a test and that they were payed for. It just sad................

It is sad if a system of belts is abused, and money is the main focus of an instructor, or the organization to which they belong, however it is not automatic that stripes on color belts means another test with another test fee. Most of the schools that I have seen use them are simply awarded as + or - on the test results. Some instructors will simply add stripes between tests to mark the completion of various requirements needed for the next test. It costs nothing more except for the tape that the instructor buys, and the time it takes to wrap the tape around the tip of the belt. No one suffers for this, in my opinion, unless this process is abused as Wade and others have witnessed in some schools.

Sometimes students and instructors of Taekwondo are exposed to the worst of dishonesty and greed. Sometimes that is the majority of what they witness in their local area, or in their travels. I have seen plenty of it as well. However, without exception, I have found that those who abuse such aspects of the Art are not the highest quality teachers, and would likely be dishonest no matter what profession they embarked upon. I have seen many instructors, from all walks of life, rise above these petty conflicts and still utilize an honest and fair system of color belts.

There are typically moderate fees charged at intervals of about every other month, totaling nine grades over a three to five year period to the Black Belt. Does this raise funds for the school to pay bills and earn a living? Yes. Does it automatically equate greed, and being all about the money? Of course not. Each instructor needs to be judged on their character and personal motivation, not what color belts or stripes you see on their students.

This my opinion for your consideration!
CM D.J. Eisenhart

 

[wade]

OK, lets start at the top. There are 2 major TKD systems here in Portland, one of them has brown belts in their ranking system and yes they are charged as much for those test as they are for any other test, around $75 a pop.

No, they may not wear a brown belt at any national qualifier nor at any USAT national level event. When the USAT puts out their information they are very adamant about this. Go to USA-taekwondo.us if there are any questions about this.

OK. lets split some more hairs. There is no such thing as a WTF school. There are schools that follow the USAT guidelines for national competition and for testing of BB"s thought they Kukkiwon. So if he is in a USAT (WTF)school that should be following USAT ranking guidelines and is wearing a brown belt and the USAT says there are no such rank, where did it come from? His Master of course and I doubt very much his master gave him that rank for free. Does the USAT really care if a school issues a brown belt, no they don't. They do care about and run all USAT national level events.

You are right, the WTF does not issue any rank nor does it govern any promotions, but many KKW certified BB's say they are WTF, shall we now go out and tell all of them how wrong they are because of this. Just another hair to split, eh?

 

[wade]

OK, I just visited you web site. Very nice and now I see why you can justify so many different belts colors. But yours is not a USAT/WTF school following the USAT guidelines, is it? Red as I recall said his was so shouldn't he be following the USAT guidelines on belt colors and ranking and not some one else's?

 

[Yeti]

I've been to two different WTF schools and both had brown belts. Both also only had 9 Gup ranks.

White
Yellow
Orange
Green
Purple
Blue
Brown
Red
Red/Black
1st Dan

I've never really understood any debate on belt colors. If the same material is learned prior to 1st Dan, does it really matter what color the belt is?

On the other hand, I will freely admit that I am (blissfully) unaware whether or not there is a WTF/Kukkiwon mandated belt system. If so, it seems the schools I've been to have not followed the system!

 

[wade]

Yeti, the color of the belt does not matter unless you are going to compete in a national level USAT tournament. Then and only then does it matter. Well, wait, there is one other time. If your instructor wants to get gup rank certificates from the USAT guess what, they only come in the official colors. There are no orange, purple or brown belts. Also with the USAT you only have 2 ranks each of yellow, green, blue and red. These match up to the USAT ranking system for, once again, national level tournaments. If an instructor wants to have a fruit salad of different colors that is there choice, but once again, if you go to a USAT national level tournament you can only wear the colors they say you can. If the gup ranks match that means your green belt would be playing in a yellow belt division (7 & 8th gup).. Purple and blue would be green level (6th and 5th gup). After that it get real confusing, because A red/black belt is considered a poom belt by the KKW, ie: a junior age black belt. So red and brown would be (1st and 2nd gup) ie: a red belt level. Wow, how do they keep this straight, either way you go it doesn't match up. A question, does your school compete? If so, is there ever any confusion on what the players ranks actually are? Do the throw all white/yellow/orange in one group, the green/purple/blue in a 2nd group and the red/brown/red-black in the 3rd group. This way you would have beginners, intermediate and advanced players. It would work as long as you only play at local tournaments, hmmmm. Nope, still don't like it. too confusing for me.
This whole thing started about what was Reds rank and why his certificate didn't match his belt rank and now you can see why there can be a real problem. If you got to Last Fearners web site you will find another whole set of belt colors, but then he is not USAT/WTF so that is another whole ball of wax altogether. Remember, we were talking about USAT/WTF schools and ranking systems. OK, I'm done here. Now I'm really confused too.

 

[Yeti]

Yeti, the color of the belt does not matter unless you are going to compete in a national level USAT tournament. Then and only then does it matter. Well, wait, there is one other time. If your instructor wants to get gup rank certificates from the USAT guess what, they only come in the official colors. There are no orange, purple or brown belts. Also with the USAT you only have 2 ranks each of yellow, green, blue and red. These match up to the USAT ranking system for, once again, national level tournaments. If an instructor wants to have a fruit salad of different colors that is there choice, but once again, if you go to a USAT national level tournament you can only wear the colors they say you can. If the gup ranks match that means your green belt would be playing in a yellow belt division (7 & 8th gup).. Purple and blue would be green level (6th and 5th gup). After that it get real confusing, because A red/black belt is considered a poom belt by the KKW, ie: a junior age black belt. So red and brown would be (1st and 2nd gup) ie: a red belt level. Wow, how do they keep this straight, either way you go it doesn't match up. A question, does your school compete? If so, is there ever any confusion on what the players ranks actually are? Do the throw all white/yellow/orange in one group, the green/purple/blue in a 2nd group and the red/brown/red-black in the 3rd group. This way you would have beginners, intermediate and advanced players. It would work as long as you only play at local tournaments, hmmmm. Nope, still don't like it. too confusing for me.
This whole thing started about what was Reds rank and why his certificate didn't match his belt rank and now you can see why there can be a real problem. If you got to Last Fearners web site you will find another whole set of belt colors, but then he is not USAT/WTF so that is another whole ball of wax altogether. Remember, we were talking about USAT/WTF schools and ranking systems. OK, I'm done here. Now I'm really confused too.

My head hurts!...

 

[Yeti]

Oh, and to answer your question Wade...yes, the schools I've been to did compete, but neither were USAT member schools. Most tournaments were local if I recall correctly. However, the 1st school I trained at was run by a member of Team Paul Mitchell, and the competition team (of which I was not a member) competed in some big tournaments (Battle of Atlanta, etc.). Not USAT sanctioned tournaments though. And yes, we were grouped into three general categories by rank - beginner, intermediate and advanced, then again by age and gener (i.e. beginner, male, 26-30, etc.).

Thanks for your input.

 

[wade]

Thanks Yeti, that does explain everything now. The Battle of Atlanta, while being a fantastic tournament is a light contact tournament. All USAT tournaments, even at the local level, are all full contact with modified head contact rules for the younger under belt players.

 

[matt.m]

In 69 when GM Park started MSK in Cape the adult rankings for Hapkido, Tae Kwon Do and Judo were

White
Yellow
Green
Blue
Brown
Black

For the kids and Women it went as follows
White
Yellow
Orange
Green
Blue
Purple
Brown
Red
Black

After a few years it just became all one belt system.

We do the ITF and WTF poomse. We also go to the 2-2 minute sparring competition style....this is our org rules as well. However, we also participate in Olympic style sparring where Blue belt and above go by olympic rules and Green and under do the 2 - 2 minute rounds.

 

[RED]

Thank you for all the input. I don't compete. I really don't care what belt I have but it helps to know where to stand in class. I haven't asked the instructor yet but I will next week.

WADE,
maybe this should be a new topic. (Mr moderater please let me know.)
When I started TKD I was told to not wash my belts. But I was told to not drag them around on the floor either. Put them in the gym bag or carry it in my hand folded not around my neck. I do wash my Dobok often.

Thanks WADE.

 

[Kacey]

When I started TKD I was told to not wash my belts. But I was told to not drag them around on the floor either. Put them in the gym bag or carry it in my hand folded not around my neck. I do wash my Dobok often.

I answered you in the thread you started on the topic. Thanks for starting a new thread - it is a (somewhat) different topic.

 

[RED]

OK I asked about the stripes. There is a written standard for each belt. On this paper there is a list of required knowledge for the next belt. Basically the stripes corresponses with the standards list so the instructor can at a glance know where the student is in prepairing for the next belt test. It's so simple it's quite a clever ranking system.

Thanks for all the input.