Quitting Wing Chun

[coffeerox]

I've come to the conclusion that I just can't go any further with this MA, nor any MA for that matter. The sad fact is that all the WC schools have schedules that are not compatible with mine. In Phoenix, if you don't have a car you're not getting anywhere. All the jobs are out in Mesa/Tempe/Chandler/Gilbert/Scottsdale and it's the same with Wing Chun. They're all the way out there but my mode of transportation (bus) may take me there, but no way to get back. Just incompatible schedules. All potential arts that I want to learn are the same exact circumstances. They're not here where I am.

So I can't go to a school, and learning it at home I'm finding is extraordinarily difficult, not because of the instruction, but because of the practice involved with a MA. You can't train responsiveness by yourself, sensitivity, or whatever. There's only so much you can do by yourself, and in the air. It's so futile that it pisses me off!

To learn by myself, I need a partner and this is where it pisses me off even further. Even people who study their own MA don't want to train, I mean why would they? They have their own classes to go to and they don't care about me advancing my art.

People who I know that don't know MA don't want to learn it. They're too busy playing competitive video games (which is frankly what most people do these days). It's getting to the point to where I'll go back to competitive fighting games just to find some damn competition and where my practice can lead to real application!

I've actually applied some concepts that I learned such as one hand controls two, changing shape to suit the situation, yielding and applying forward energy, backup hand and more. I even have inch power. It's effective stuff and that's what makes this harder to accept that I'll never be able to master it the way that I should.

I want to thank Jin (chinaboxer) for his concept videos, all of which helped take my training to a higher level of understanding. Sifu Duncan Leung, with his many posts to help people understand WC. Michael Wong for which his online lessons set me towards learning WC. Gary Lam for his amazing (although slightly overpriced) DVD's. Chu Shong Tin for his articles into the finer aspects. I've learned so much this past year and a half. It's a shame that I can't even practice it.

 

[baron]

Sorry to hear of your plight. Have you talked to people at the school to see if any one can give you a ride? I know when I trained I used to take people home if they needed a ride. This also gives you time to make deeper freindships and then maybe you can find some one to train with.

 

[coffeerox]

I can't even get to the schools because like I said, not enough time to get back. The schools are not in my town. If I go there, I can drop in for maybe 10 minutes before I have to leave. Also most of them do not permit just dropping by, they have to be scheduled and I can't make a commitment to something I can't follow through with.

 

[jks9199]

Were you serious, you would find a way. I have a hard time believing that there are no martial arts schools that you could train at, or that there was no way you could make it work. I know one person who would bicycle some 15 or 20 miles every day, each way, to train, for example. If this was something you really wanted, you would figure out a way to make it work.

 

[Vajramusti]

coffeerox- and you are in Phoenix? Lots of choices from different lineages.
Perhaps, I don't understand your problem.
Depending on will and dedication often it is possible to find a way.
When I moved from Tucson to Las Cruces, NM., every Friday for years I would make a 270 mile trip-560 round trip to learn on Friday through Sunday.Now I am back in Arizona in Tempe- 110 miles up the road from Tucson. A couple of my students travel 40 miles round trip to learn. They come together and practice also on their own.
BTW, I am not giving you a hard time.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

 

[coffeerox]

Well then I guess I am not serious enough. I don't have a car, don't have a bike to use. The closest school is 17 miles away so I'm not walking that distance to/from. Even if I could bike up there, I don't have the money to pay the fee. It's not that there are no martial art schools, it's that there are no Wing Chun schools. WC's closest styles/systems, are Aikido and Tai Chi. Aikido is not in the area, and Tai Chi is in a bad part of town, and I question whether they teach health or both health and combat. Either way I can't pay the fee.

coffeerox- and you are in Phoenix? Lots of choices from different lineages.
Perhaps, I don't understand your problem.
Depending on will and dedication often it is possible to find a way.
When I moved from Tucson to Las Cruces, NM., every Friday for years I would make a 270 mile trip-560 round trip to learn on Friday through Sunday.Now I am back in Arizona in Tempe- 110 miles up the road from Tucson. A couple of my students travel 40 miles round trip to learn. They come together and practice also on their own.
BTW, I am not giving you a hard time.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

With all due respect, things are a lot easier with a car. I just don't have the resources to learn this the way that I should. My only option was to practice with a partner but I can't find one. No one wants to do anything!

 

[Chat Noir]

Were you serious, you would find a way. I have a hard time believing that there are no martial arts schools that you could train at, or that there was no way you could make it work. I know one person who would bicycle some 15 or 20 miles every day, each way, to train, for example. If this was something you really wanted, you would figure out a way to make it work.

I don't think that's a fair thing to put on someone. I had a sifu that rubbed it in my face how long he'd travel for classes. He'd go to NY and train and come back to MA. He'd work in shoe stores, etc. I got lost easy driving, I had no money to speak of, a learning disability in math and I had to travel more than hour just to train with a couple of guys in my spare time. People have a life. Believe it or not, you can be serious about an art and just have strikes against you. Maybe Coffeeerox really is serious but he's got a crappy situation - not unlike what I had. BTW, Coffee, I once looked out a guy in three pages of the phone book trying to find him only to find he gave up Wing Chun. There was no way for me as a woman to find a training partner, much less find someone serious and long term. I feel for you. It pissed me off too but not as much as the self righteous SOB I had a sifu. I dumped his sorry behind and have much better teachers now.

Maybe you can't do Wing Chun for now. Find something else in the meantime and when you can move, or find a better situation. My sympathies Coffe, I've really been there and know how you feel.

Laura

P.S. Coffee - just a thought, if you can't train in Wing Chun - do what I did until I found my teacher - I bought instructional DVDs and played them out. You can learn a lot by watching. Find another art - post on Craigslist - keep looking. In the meantime, if you can join a gym or something else, go for it until you get a break. Good luck.

 

[coffeerox]

Thanks Laura. I'm glad that someone out there understands my plight. It's not like I didn't try. I created a Do-It-Yourself curriculum, lots of hours of study, form practice, reading, etc. This was over 1.5 year timespan. Had I discovered WC in 2008, things would have been different, I was actually in a position at that time but didn't know it.

 

[MJS]

I know you posted this in the WC area, but area you willing to train something else if you could get there? Out of curiosity, what is your mode of transportation? You said you have no car or bike. How do you get around?

http://www.kajukenbo.org/schools/

http://www.winjutsu.com/winlinks.html

http://www.skhquest.com/train-with-us/schools/

http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/cgi-bin/addacad.pl

Just a few things that I found. Is there anyone that can drive you to and from any of these places?

 

[jks9199]

Thanks Laura. I'm glad that someone out there understands my plight. It's not like I didn't try. I created a Do-It-Yourself curriculum, lots of hours of study, form practice, reading, etc. This was over 1.5 year timespan. Had I discovered WC in 2008, things would have been different, I was actually in a position at that time but didn't know it.

I didn't want to go down this road -- but you're bringing it up.

You "created a do-it-yourself" program. Based on what knowledge or experience? It seems that you're saying that tai chi, aikido, and wing chun are similar systems. Well, I guess they are in that they all involve Oriental martial arts, and the same human body... but that's about it. Even tai chi and aikido aren't that similar, and neither is very similar to wing chun.

I don't know what your limitations on obtaining a car or bike, or earning the money to pay for the classes are. They certainly seem like things that could be overcome if you wanted to do so badly enough. Certainly more easily than inventing your own curriculum based on the internet/videos/who-knows-what and wishing you could find someone to practice with... I can tell you, were you to approach me and say "I just wanna practice this wing chun stuff I've been doing without a teacher" my response would be pretty reliably thanks, but no. I might offer you the opportunity to train with me, in my style... but I'm not going to encourage a let's-pretend version of wing chun. Maybe I'm missing where you actually trained in the style for a while...

 

[Haakon]

It's not that there are no martial art schools, it's that there are no Wing Chun schools. WC's closest styles/systems, are Aikido and Tai Chi.

You might want to look at other styles, Aikido isn't really anything like the Wing chun I've seen. It looks like there are a couple of Kempo studios in Phoenix, you might take a look at one of those if you can swing the fee, I'd think they would be a lot more like WC than Aikido or Tai Chi.

 

[CRCAVirginia]

Relax, don't force it... when you are ready a teacher will come, in the meantime continue doing what you can. Punching, kicking, Forms etc.

 

[MJS]

I don't think that's a fair thing to put on someone. I had a sifu that rubbed it in my face how long he'd travel for classes. He'd go to NY and train and come back to MA. He'd work in shoe stores, etc. I got lost easy driving, I had no money to speak of, a learning disability in math and I had to travel more than hour just to train with a couple of guys in my spare time. People have a life. Believe it or not, you can be serious about an art and just have strikes against you. Maybe Coffeeerox really is serious but he's got a crappy situation - not unlike what I had. BTW, Coffee, I once looked out a guy in three pages of the phone book trying to find him only to find he gave up Wing Chun. There was no way for me as a woman to find a training partner, much less find someone serious and long term. I feel for you. It pissed me off too but not as much as the self righteous SOB I had a sifu. I dumped his sorry behind and have much better teachers now.

Maybe you can't do Wing Chun for now. Find something else in the meantime and when you can move, or find a better situation. My sympathies Coffe, I've really been there and know how you feel.

Laura

P.S. Coffee - just a thought, if you can't train in Wing Chun - do what I did until I found my teacher - I bought instructional DVDs and played them out. You can learn a lot by watching. Find another art - post on Craigslist - keep looking. In the meantime, if you can join a gym or something else, go for it until you get a break. Good luck.

Perhaps the OPs comment was viewed this way: Many times, when people ask about schools, training, etc., they're looking for things that are only within a certain distance, which is fine, but many times, those same people have said that theres nothing in their area, when in fact there is, but they're limiting themselves to a certain distance.

Sure, its nice to have a school/teacher right around the corner. One of my Arnis teachers is within walking distance of my condo, my Kenpo teacher is about 20min. But if I wanted to train that bad, I'd make the trek...all within reason of course. No, I would not expect someone to travel 3 or more hrs one way, but there is a guy in the Boston area of MA that comes to CT to train. Certainly not around the corner.

Would I travel 2hrs.? Yes, if a) it was something I wanted that bad and b) if there was nothing equal to what I was looking for. Of course, I'd make it worth my while though. In addition to a class, I'd also fit in a private lesson.

 

[Chat Noir]

Not everyone has that choice to travel two hours. Coffeerox may have other commitments in his life that require his time, and while it may be no big deal to another, everyone is different. It's unfair to suggest that if you don't go to extremes to train, you're not a serious martial artist.

I recommend Coffee that if you can't do Wing Chun, better to train in something than nothing at all. Aikido and Tai Chi are in fact similar to WC because it requires not going against strength and going with the flow. If you don't see the similarities, you're not looking hard enough. I study Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do, and Judo - and I can see the similarities in all of them, or I wouldn't study them, because I'm primarily a Wing Chun gal. However, Coffee will do what is best for him and what he can manage within his physical limitations to the school regarding distance and travel and what he can afford. No one should judge his dedication to the art if you don't know his life.

BTW Coffee - just a quick note, I found the name of my unlisted Wing Chun teacher - my first sifu from a Kempo Karate guy I trained with. Needless to say once I got in touch with the WC guy, I dropped Karate. Put yourself out there, you never know what you can find or when you'll get lucky. The best teachers can be found through networking.

 

[MJS]

Not everyone has that choice to travel two hours. Coffeerox may have other commitments in his life that require his time, and while it may be no big deal to another, everyone is different. It's unfair to suggest that if you don't go to extremes to train, you're not a serious martial artist.

I recommend Coffee that if you can't do Wing Chun, better to train in something than nothing at all. Aikido and Tai Chi are in fact similar to WC because it requires not going against strength and going with the flow. If you don't see the similarities, you're not looking hard enough. I study Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do, and Judo - and I can see the similarities in all of them, or I wouldn't study them, because I'm primarily a Wing Chun gal. However, Coffee will do what is best for him and what he can manage within his physical limitations to the school regarding distance and travel and what he can afford. No one should judge his dedication to the art if you don't know his life.

BTW Coffee - just a quick note, I found the name of my unlisted Wing Chun teacher - my first sifu from a Kempo Karate guy I trained with. Needless to say once I got in touch with the WC guy, I dropped Karate. Put yourself out there, you never know what you can find or when you'll get lucky. The best teachers can be found through networking.

Points taken. I did suggest a few other options aside from WC. I'm not from that area, so I have no idea how far any of those places I listed, are from the OP. Another option is a study group. Perhaps getting together with someone who does train at a school, who'd be willing to work with him a few times a week. Hell, it doesnt have to be a black belt. IMO, if someone was at an intermediate level, well, thats better than nothing. I also asked if there was anyone that would be willing to drive him. Perhaps carpool with someone.

I also suggested private lessons. I know many people who just do privates because of their schedules. Money is money IMO, and I'd be surprised if a teacher turned it down, if someone contacted them, told them of their situation, and made arrangement for 1 on 1 lessons.

I never said his dedication wasn't there. It just seems to me that there are other options out there, that perhaps he didn't think of or take advantage of yet.

If all else fails, then my suggestion is this: If the OP has any training, then he will have to train on his own, drilling the stuff, even if it means doing it without a partner, until that time, when he can find the necessary transportation.

 

[Tensei85]

To OP, I am sorry for your dilemma truly.

But does'nt it seem a little redundant to be posting this concern as it seems you've already made up your mind not to find a way to make it work??? (Or am I missing something, most definitely am : )~)

If that's the case I will say I don't recommend as many, "do it yourself Martial Arts kits".

But as what's stated I travelled 5 hours one way & would stay for a Weekend, I've even taken a 6 hour flight one way for a weekend of training. That includes saving pennies to make it happen, I'm a firm believer that there's always a way to make something that you want to work inless you really don't want to make it happen. So I won't continue on that note as it seems that point has already been firmly laid out.

So all that being said I wish you the best & hope you enjoy competitive video game playing, haha sometimes I do as well.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

With all due respect, the Phoenix metropolitan area is a vast horizontal spread, and to my thinking, shy on any Chinese Martial Art training availability.

There seems to be a TaeKwonDo school on every corner, and often a van is parked outside the TKD school ready to go pick up the kids after school. I have spoken to parents who absolutely love this, because the TKD school is closer than the public school and they can get things done in their busy lives. The TKD school becomes a time management tool.

Other than that, more specialized CMA disciplines, if they are here at all, are few and far between, farflung across the Phoenix metropolitan area.

Having said that, lighten up. Work carefully at the hand forms, and let the system sink into your bones. The day may come when access to serious training partners is a reality. You'll be ready.
Also, hopefully Geezer will provide some of his hard won wisdom on this subject!

 

[coffeerox]

You "created a do-it-yourself" program. Based on what knowledge or experience?

Based on others knowledge and experience. It's pretty much taking Michael Wong's lessons, Jin Young's concepts, which by the way, Michael's is focused on combat applications and with Jin's concepts teaches you to have the proper structure for those combat applications. I've also studied videos from Gary Lam and Chu Shong Tin on Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu from Benny Meng. Sadly did not get the chance to get any more Chum Kiu material.

Michael Wong's WC Lesson 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w9t...&p=2939A535FABE8ECA&playnext_from=PL&index=18
Jin Young on SNT

Michael's system was missing the forms and the study of the different hand shapes such as Tan, Bong, Fook so what I did was learn Siu Nim Tao from various instruction sources. Went back to his lessons and better understood what he was teaching me. He was teaching these things without labelling them.

The study of the various hand shapes took a long time and up until today, was an ongoing progress. It's not just those three that I studied by the way. I also studied Wu, Pak, Jum, Jut, Fak, Lan, Gan, Gum, Kwon, and so on, so forth.

It seems that you're saying that tai chi, aikido, and wing chun are similar systems.

They are all internal arts. A lot of the concepts I've noticed are used in those systems. I saw Attack+Defend in Aikido, yielding to greater force, redirection of attacks. For the most part they are very similar, just done in a different way, different applications.

Steven Seagal training Anderson Silva in Aikido

They certainly seem like things that could be overcome if you wanted to do so badly enough.

It's quite easy to say in Virigina, but come down to Phoenix and it's a whole different ballgame. Our job market is different, cost of living is different, etc. You wouldn't make it out here.

Perhaps the OPs comment was viewed this way: Many times, when people ask about schools, training, etc., they're looking for things that are only within a certain distance

You're not reading what I'm saying are you? Go to Google Maps and type in Wing Chun Phoenix Arizona. I want you to tell me how many schools are in Glendale and Phoenix. Look at the map. Phoenix is a huge city, and our public transportation is not as advanced as other cities.

I would travel 2 hours too, but there's no way to get back home after class.

I also suggested private lessons.

Private lessons are even worse as that goes into the hundreds. If this was 2008, I could spot a bus ride to school and maybe a taxi ride back home however it's 2010 and things aren't looking that good anymore.

 

[MJS]

You're not reading what I'm saying are you? Go to Google Maps and type in Wing Chun Phoenix Arizona. I want you to tell me how many schools are in Glendale and Phoenix. Look at the map. Phoenix is a huge city, and our public transportation is not as advanced as other cities.

I'm reading what you're saying. Are you reading what I'm saying? Seems like you're limiting yourself to just WC. I posted links to a number of other places. So basically you're telling me that there is nothing, not even a TKD school, within walking distance?

I would travel 2 hours too, but there's no way to get back home after class.

Absolutely nobody available to drive you or carpool with? Obviously if someone is willing to drive you there, you'd think they'd be willing to pick you up as well.

Private lessons are even worse as that goes into the hundreds. If this was 2008, I could spot a bus ride to school and maybe a taxi ride back home however it's 2010 and things aren't looking that good anymore.

The hundreds? How long are the lessons? Im assuming that you asked the teacher if he'd be willing to work with you on a price and explained your situation to him/her? How much will it cost for a taxi one way?

You're probably not going to like this, but I'm going to say it anyways. It sounds like you want to train. It sounds like you have transportation issues. It sounds like there are options available to you. I dont know whether or not you've exhausted all of your options, but if you havent, perhaps you should. If training is not an option at this time, then you need to accept that. You came on here, starting a thread, giving me at least, the impression that you were looking for suggestions/solutions to your problem. Suggestions were given, but it seems that either they're not good enough, or you just dont like what you're hearing. Perhaps training at this time, isn't in the cards for you.

 

[coffeerox]

Seems like you're limiting yourself to just WC.

I'm not limited to WC. I've practiced a little bit of Shotokan and Boxing. I like Boxing but doesn't encompass what I want to learn, neither does Shotokan. There is actually a Shotokan school within 1 short bus ride. What I want to train in is an internal martial art, not these other hard styles.

I looked at your list, which btw I appreciate, the only one I was interested in was Bujinkan which I had no idea we had school here. I'll look into it but then I'll have to deal with fees. Financially right now is not a good time.

How much will it cost for a taxi one way?

30 dollars minimum.

Perhaps training at this time, isn't in the cards for you.

That's the conclusion that I reached. I hope to get a new job and move down to Tempe or Mesa and finally get a formal education so that I'm not mocked by people for learning it myself.