Question on martial artists

Gerry Seymour

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You can be a bad fighter in MMA but still be better trained than does who don't train to fight.
A bad boxer would still be dangerous to most who don't box or spar.
You're talking about someone who loses, but is trained. My point is that "fighter" just means "someone who fights". It doesn't actually say they're any good, nor that they're trained for it.
 

jobo

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I suspect you'll find some differences in opinion on this, but they're likely to be within a limited range. A "fighter" is someone who fights. Now, the differences in opinion will be in what counts as "fights". Does sparring count? All sparring or some? Does sport combat count? Unsanctioned challenge matches? Or just stuff light fighting "in the street" (and what does that even mean?)?

I have skills in areas that are useful for fighting. But I don't fight (I've looked longingly at some sport combat, but can't seem to stay un-injured long enough to give it a go). I do spar, but rarely these days with folks at or above my own level - mostly with students. So I wouldn't call myself a fighter.
I think it's far more fundamental than that, a fighter is a mentality a refusal to be beaten, until your actually beaten and even then,

if someone has that attribute they take it into all aspects of their lives, even if they never actually punch someone at all or regularly.

I see it often in professional sport, that when things are going against a team, players all over the pitch stop trying, if they have fighters in their team, you can spot them easily, some times they have enough to turn a match around, usually they dont as fighters are a rare commodity and worth a considerable amount of money in professional sport and business.

if you want to turn that to the subject of professional fighters, most have it or they dont last long as professionals and certainly never achieve much with out it.

on the slightly less obvious subject of dojo sparring, you can get a long way with iut it coz the sparing is commonly water down, so having to dig deep isn't a regular occurance
 

Gerry Seymour

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I think it's far more fundamental than that, a fighter is a mentality a refusal to be beaten, until your actually beaten and even then,

if someone has that attribute they take it into all aspects of their lives, even if they never actually punch someone at all or regularly.

I see it often in professional sport, that when things are going against a team, players all over the pitch stop trying, if they have fighters in their team, you can spot them easily, some times they have enough to turn a match around, usually they dont as fighters are a rare commodity and worth a considerable amount of money in professional sport and business.

if you want to turn that to the subject of professional fighters, most have it or they dont last long as professionals and certainly never achieve much with out it.

on the slightly less obvious subject of dojo sparring, you can get a long way with iut it coz the sparing is commonly water down, so having to dig deep isn't a regular occurance
Okay, so that's a different definition. No argument there.
 

JowGaWolf

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You're talking about someone who loses, but is trained. My point is that "fighter" just means "someone who fights". It doesn't actually say they're any good, nor that they're trained for it.
A 7 year old who fights his sibling is not a fighter even though the child is fight. Fighters are driven to be good at fighting. Even in illness those who are said to be fighters are those who are determined not to be beaten by the illness
 

Gerry Seymour

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A 7 year old who fights his sibling is not a fighter even though the child is fight. Fighters are driven to be good at fighting. Even in illness those who are said to be fighters are those who are determined not to be beaten by the illness
Okay, so that goes beyond the basic definition of someone who fights. This is closer to what @jobo was talking about.
 

Randy Pio

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When in your opinion, can someone call themselves a martial artist?
It was a question asked in last night's class, when we have a discussion at the end, I never really thought about it much, but the answers were diverse.

For me, it was when I took the material I was taught; embraced it and made it my own. When I found myself walking on a path, parallel to my teacher; but separate.
 

isshinryuronin

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Martial arts entails fighting. It also entails much more. I know some posters here equate the two, but "the true value of martial arts goes beyond fighting techniques." I put in quote marks because I seem to remember Bruce Lee writing something like that. Bruce was one of the more pragmatic martial art theorists, yet even he recognized it is more than just fighting.

Itosu, Motobu (a very accomplished "real" fighter), Funakoshi, Higaonna, and many of the other old masters of the past have written about the moral and philosophical elements of the martial arts. They all saw it as a way of life, to be used every day, whether you are fighting, avoiding fighting, or just helping someone out and being considerate.

So, IMO, you are a martial artist when you understand the physical techniques of MA, and strive to live the ideals with one mind and heart.
 

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