Question for you TKD guy's

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
You all probably know that I rarely post on here any longer. There's not enough time in my day to work, then teach, try to visit with the kids then get on the 'net & try to balance wifey somewhere in there too. Recently I've been struggling with something. I would like to know your input before making a complete decision.

Those of you who may have been around when I started on MT which was in '02 might know my back ground. If not I'll provide a short synposis. I started TKD in July of '89. Made my way to 2nd black before leaving. During my time period with my instructor we had several other TKD instructor's in our studio. We trained in the olympic TKD w/one instructor. Another couple of guest instructor's who brought other idea's & training methods along as well. Besides regular tournaments, TKD tournaments, I had the opportunity to train in full contact kickboxing.

My last classes were in may of '94. In june of '94 I started american kenpo. Been at it ever since. Although on ocassion I would teach a class here and there for my former instructor when he needed help or if something came up he couldn't be there. Since my kenpo training started I opened my own small studio in Nov. '06. My area is small. There are only a couple of legit insturctors in town. The rest well, everyone has the rest of them hanging around too. My classes have been starving for students. Not that it all bothers me b/c this is a part time, love for the arts vs. trying to make sure my family has food in their mouths. I very much enjoy my day job, oh, & insurance (lol).

Here's where my dilhema comes into play. Sometime in dec. some guy's had contacted me to teach them TKD as they had heard through the grapevine I trained in it. To that I said there is one real good guy in town who does this. They all kind of balked at the idea. They pursued me, emailed me, & called me. From each they told me they wanted to learn to fight, kick, kick properly, punch, strike, & most importantly have sound basics when fighting. I still turned them down. One day the more vocal of the three said we would like a class. Put one together, let's do it & see where we fall. After that I said, you will have to come after my kenpo class. They need to stay seperate. The three of you will have to listen, go over the basic of the basics. You will do the front snap, roundhouse kick, w/the horizontal, & vertical punches at first. Don't bring ego's, be prepared to sweat & most important be ready to move.

Our day came 3 monday's ago. We put a lot of sweat on the mat. It was a great time. One of them had experience & found out he needed to hone his skills on the above which I touched on. After the class they all said this is what they were looking for. All 3 signed up on that night & committed to training every monday night. I had told them I was not interested in changing gi's. Wearing one then changing to start another class with another gi, new belt & so on. You probably get the idea.

Ok, that was 3 monday's ago. Since then I had another set of guy's come in to train. So, besides me there will be 6 more students. I have only 2 serious adult students taking my kenpo classes. People come then they drop out, none typically stay. Here I have 6 new people that want to just learn to spar & get into some real fitness.

During this class though, I told them it couldn't possibly be strictly a TKD class. There are drills from the chinese influence of kenpo I find an incredible amount of value in. Also, I will be teaching the freestyle techniques found in the kenpo system to these guys. This will help bridge the gap between self defense, sparring, & save your butt on the street. So you see, this is not a strict TKD & fitness class. I can't market it as that. At least I don't think so.

There have been women who wanted a fitness class who wanted to learn how to defend themselves as well as learn the basics of kicking, punching, & striking. Therefore I am now at a crossroads trying to figure out what exactly to do. My instincts tell me to open this up to others as a TKD & fitness class. If I do that then I would have to teach the full TKD curriculum. I'm not interested in doing that. The forms between the arts are much too different. That, & I really don't want to go back to brush up on my chong-ji through Po-Eun. There's too many in my head to begin with. If this is advertised as an actual mixed martial arts class then I will get the guy's who think they are going to learn stand up fighting then JJ. This is not the case either. I don't want someone suing me for false advertisement.

Lastly, I hope that this long lengthy message you all understand where I'm coming from? Let me know your thoughts please?
Respectfully,
Jason Farnsworth
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,351
Reaction score
2,581
Location
Northern VA
Sounds like you're trying to figure out how to advertise it, right?

Why not just "martial arts"? Kind of subtitle it with "Tae Kwon Do, Kenpo, whatever-do" is appropriate. Explain to students that you're teaching with a solid foundation in TKD and Kenpo and that the way you teach reflects both arts.
 

terryl965

<center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR
MTS Alumni
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
41,259
Reaction score
337
Location
Grand Prairie Texas
Jason you could always market as traditional TKD without the poomsae, just leave it as physical fitness with an emphasis on real life SD principles. This will allow you to say TKD and fitness without the other stuff you do not want right now. Just be aware that if you start to grow this class into something then you may need to rethink your direction for the school. Best of luck and keep kicking.
 

BrandonLucas

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
902
Reaction score
41
You all probably know that I rarely post on here any longer. There's not enough time in my day to work, then teach, try to visit with the kids then get on the 'net & try to balance wifey somewhere in there too. Recently I've been struggling with something. I would like to know your input before making a complete decision.

Those of you who may have been around when I started on MT which was in '02 might know my back ground. If not I'll provide a short synposis. I started TKD in July of '89. Made my way to 2nd black before leaving. During my time period with my instructor we had several other TKD instructor's in our studio. We trained in the olympic TKD w/one instructor. Another couple of guest instructor's who brought other idea's & training methods along as well. Besides regular tournaments, TKD tournaments, I had the opportunity to train in full contact kickboxing.

My last classes were in may of '94. In june of '94 I started american kenpo. Been at it ever since. Although on ocassion I would teach a class here and there for my former instructor when he needed help or if something came up he couldn't be there. Since my kenpo training started I opened my own small studio in Nov. '06. My area is small. There are only a couple of legit insturctors in town. The rest well, everyone has the rest of them hanging around too. My classes have been starving for students. Not that it all bothers me b/c this is a part time, love for the arts vs. trying to make sure my family has food in their mouths. I very much enjoy my day job, oh, & insurance (lol).

Here's where my dilhema comes into play. Sometime in dec. some guy's had contacted me to teach them TKD as they had heard through the grapevine I trained in it. To that I said there is one real good guy in town who does this. They all kind of balked at the idea. They pursued me, emailed me, & called me. From each they told me they wanted to learn to fight, kick, kick properly, punch, strike, & most importantly have sound basics when fighting. I still turned them down. One day the more vocal of the three said we would like a class. Put one together, let's do it & see where we fall. After that I said, you will have to come after my kenpo class. They need to stay seperate. The three of you will have to listen, go over the basic of the basics. You will do the front snap, roundhouse kick, w/the horizontal, & vertical punches at first. Don't bring ego's, be prepared to sweat & most important be ready to move.

Our day came 3 monday's ago. We put a lot of sweat on the mat. It was a great time. One of them had experience & found out he needed to hone his skills on the above which I touched on. After the class they all said this is what they were looking for. All 3 signed up on that night & committed to training every monday night. I had told them I was not interested in changing gi's. Wearing one then changing to start another class with another gi, new belt & so on. You probably get the idea.

Ok, that was 3 monday's ago. Since then I had another set of guy's come in to train. So, besides me there will be 6 more students. I have only 2 serious adult students taking my kenpo classes. People come then they drop out, none typically stay. Here I have 6 new people that want to just learn to spar & get into some real fitness.

During this class though, I told them it couldn't possibly be strictly a TKD class. There are drills from the chinese influence of kenpo I find an incredible amount of value in. Also, I will be teaching the freestyle techniques found in the kenpo system to these guys. This will help bridge the gap between self defense, sparring, & save your butt on the street. So you see, this is not a strict TKD & fitness class. I can't market it as that. At least I don't think so.

There have been women who wanted a fitness class who wanted to learn how to defend themselves as well as learn the basics of kicking, punching, & striking. Therefore I am now at a crossroads trying to figure out what exactly to do. My instincts tell me to open this up to others as a TKD & fitness class. If I do that then I would have to teach the full TKD curriculum. I'm not interested in doing that. The forms between the arts are much too different. That, & I really don't want to go back to brush up on my chong-ji through Po-Eun. There's too many in my head to begin with. If this is advertised as an actual mixed martial arts class then I will get the guy's who think they are going to learn stand up fighting then JJ. This is not the case either. I don't want someone suing me for false advertisement.

Lastly, I hope that this long lengthy message you all understand where I'm coming from? Let me know your thoughts please?
Respectfully,
Jason Farnsworth

First,

It's not false advertisement to call that mixed martial arts. That's exactly what you're describing...a mixture of different martial arts. That doesn't mean that you have to have grappling in there at all.

Second,

If you want to call it TKD, I don't see the problem there...at least, not with all the other schools out there that barely teach the TKD cirriculum anyway and concentrate more on daycare and membership fees. At least you're offering something of SD value to people who want to learn it. It may not be a pure TKD cirriculum, but maybe you could have someone else come in and assist with the other side of the teaching. You could do the SD drills, and the other teacher could concentrate on the forms.

Third,

Be careful to not fall into the trap of trying to call it a name that you create. That's an easy road to follow, but can lead to more complications than it can help. Even though it may be something that you're putting together, try to stick as close to a traditional base as possible.

That's my .95 pesos.
 

IcemanSK

El Conquistador nim!
MT Mentor
MTS Alumni
Joined
Nov 7, 2005
Messages
6,480
Reaction score
177
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I agree with BrandonLucas on this one. It's not like you learned TKD from a book. You put your time in & you know the Art well enough to teach it. You're an honorable man who can legitimately teach both TKD & EPAK. I don't see that advertising both, when you teach both, as a bad thing. Lord knows there are many TKD folks who also advertise Hapkido who don't know it nor attempt to teach it.
 

mozzandherb

Green Belt
Joined
Jan 26, 2009
Messages
119
Reaction score
3
Location
Gatineau
Follow your heart and do whatever your instincts tell you. Don't worry about the false advertisement, as was mentioned that won't be an issue...g/l
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,357
Reaction score
4,655
Location
England
I'd disagree with calling it mixed martial arts as people will expect grappling in there and mixed usually means in martial arts terms doing it all at the same time or at least in the same session ie sparring standing up, take downs and grappling. When we advertise we say we do traditional and modern martial arts.
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
I appreciate the responses & look forward to others commenting as well. First & most important to me is to not look like one of the flybynight's we all see around. I am not one of those. Nor will I ever be one of those people. Anyone that trains under me, I do not want them to feel as if that's the training they are getting.

It felt real good to get back out on the mat to train like the old days. Maybe, that's why those 6 have said right off the bat they were staying. As far as this subject goes, all in all, I want to make sure i do the right thing for advertising the class & calling it appropriately. This is why my question came up to you all here in this forum.

At the moment I feel as though, calling it a TKD & fitness class just might be the right answer. This way anyone new won't think they are douped into something it is not. Legitamacy is the key.
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
I'd disagree with calling it mixed martial arts as people will expect grappling in there and mixed usually means in martial arts terms doing it all at the same time or at least in the same session ie sparring standing up, take downs and grappling. When we advertise we say we do traditional and modern martial arts.

Yes, I agree as well. Most would think it's stand up and ground grappling. I can't teach something like that. Not qualified to do so. Thank you.
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
First,

It's not false advertisement to call that mixed martial arts. That's exactly what you're describing...a mixture of different martial arts. That doesn't mean that you have to have grappling in there at all.

Second,

If you want to call it TKD, I don't see the problem there...at least, not with all the other schools out there that barely teach the TKD cirriculum anyway and concentrate more on daycare and membership fees. At least you're offering something of SD value to people who want to learn it. It may not be a pure TKD cirriculum, but maybe you could have someone else come in and assist with the other side of the teaching. You could do the SD drills, and the other teacher could concentrate on the forms.

Third,

Be careful to not fall into the trap of trying to call it a name that you create. That's an easy road to follow, but can lead to more complications than it can help. Even though it may be something that you're putting together, try to stick as close to a traditional base as possible.

1. Yes, that is both sides of the coin. I also talked with someone who shared the same feelings. I'm still a little torn on the idea.

2. I will also be teaching one steps along with the program. My wife found my old testing sheets from years ago. Looking back to some of the things we did then was a good reminder. So far 6 have found much value in only 3 classes thusfar. Suppose I am doing something right.

3. I wouldn't fall pray to that. All the other's out there can have that. I just want to teach & to train myself. Right along with everyone else. When we all get together there are no ego's in my place. We move & do & (as Doc say's) we get jiggy.
 

Daniel Sullivan

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
6,472
Reaction score
269
Location
Olney, Maryland
There have been women who wanted a fitness class who wanted to learn how to defend themselves as well as learn the basics of kicking, punching, & striking. Therefore I am now at a crossroads trying to figure out what exactly to do. My instincts tell me to open this up to others as a TKD & fitness class. If I do that then I would have to teach the full TKD curriculum. I'm not interested in doing that. The forms between the arts are much too different. That, & I really don't want to go back to brush up on my chong-ji through Po-Eun. There's too many in my head to begin with. If this is advertised as an actual mixed martial arts class then I will get the guy's who think they are going to learn stand up fighting then JJ. This is not the case either. I don't want someone suing me for false advertisement.
While I don't know that anyone would sue you for false advertisement, I agree with Tez. Don't call it mixed martial arts. That implies that your school can actually train someone in a specific competition rule set and in specific techniques, some of which are not part of the curriculum.

You could do what every other martial arts school does that doesn't neatly fall into any one category: put a big sign on the door that says, "Karate." Given that Kenpo and Taekwondo are considered by many to be Karate (whether or not they actually are is another story, but that is public perception), nobody would bat an eyelash.

Regarding what to include in your TKD curriculum, if your school isn't affiliated with an organization and your black belt certs simply read "JFarnsworth's school", then your curriculum can be pretty much whatever you wish to include. If you have students wanting to do Olympic sparring, you'll want to brush up on the rule set and make sure that they have appropriate gear.

I guess the best thing is to get a good feel for what direction your students are looking to go and ballance that with what sort of school you are running. It doesn't sound like you have the rank chaser/belt collector students issue to deal with, so you can probably do a lot more in terms of what you feel comfortable with and not have to worry about alienating the BBC crowd.

Best wishes to you!

Daniel
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
Again, thanks all for the comments. I have decided to advertise a TKD class. As some of you know. When coming up with my first insturctor he was affiliated with the ITF. There was some type of falling out so he decided to be an independent with no affiliations.
I pulled out my old testing sheets to look at the requirements at the varied levels. To be honest. The general population kind of flocks to the TKD idea. Some how everyone who has any type of idea of martial arts that's what pops into their head. At this point 2 other people have contacted me on obtaining lessons. Maybe this is what I needed to get my school growing. Last monday night there were 7 guys on the mat. Only once have I had 8 guys on the mat in my kenpo classes. However, they had to drive from cleveland to mt. vernon to get together at my place. Nonetheless, I'll report back to share in my progress. Also, maybe ask for some new ideas from you all?
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
Just a quick update for you all. I see this thread is just a little more than a month old. Since opening this class up as well as a small amount of advertising so far. Very little but some advertising. This past monday I had 10 guys on the mat. Well 9 guys & 1 woman. I can't believe that this has grown that quickly. My kenpo class just had 3 new students sign this month but that brings my total to 7 between kids & adults. It's been great so far.
 

StuartA

Black Belt
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
634
Reaction score
33
Location
London
I would simply call it "<Area> Martial Arts" as a heading, and then a small (or longer if on a web site) description of what it incorporates, in this case kempo & TKD. Then maybe a little more detail about what that involves and what parts you utilise.

Personally I wouldnt call it MMA, as, though the posters are correct and you are technically mixing martial arts, MMA is now a label and as you say, people will be expecting a UFC type training enviroment.

Or, you could simply call your system "Free Style" incorporating kempo & TKD methods!

Stuart
 

StuartA

Black Belt
Joined
Feb 4, 2008
Messages
634
Reaction score
33
Location
London
Or simply teach both :)

You can utilize training drills and ideas etc. from each style for the students betterment, as longa s the core structure and grading syllabus are based msotly on whiche ver style they are predominantly learning!

Stuart
 

DBZ

Orange Belt
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Messages
83
Reaction score
2
Location
Ohio
Im glad things are goin well, I am in ohio and im curious where N.C. ohio is? does that mean north central?
 

BrandonLucas

3rd Black Belt
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
902
Reaction score
41
That's great news that it's taking off for you now! You've obviously done something right.
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
Thanks all again for the thoughts. I appreciate your input & ideas.

To answer a couple of comments above. So far I've done nothing but drill, drill, drill, & do more drills with the students I have. We've been on the mat for close to 2 months with my original students. I've showed them how to do 3 kicks, 4 punches, & a block. With that said, we drill only those for now. They must like it as they keep coming back & more people have been added little by little. Well that, & we spar at the end of the class. So far no forms, or fluff, just straight up sparring concepts, ideas, & well, just plain fighting.
 
OP
jfarnsworth

jfarnsworth

Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 17, 2002
Messages
6,550
Reaction score
33
Location
N.C. Ohio
Guy's, you just 'gotta let me say that our session last night kicked major @ss! Period! We had 9 guy's on the mat & what's the most fun about it is... Not one single person there has an attitude problem, ego issue's, it's nothing but great attitudes. People willing to work & help one another. Some students I have at this class have more martial arts experience over others that are just brand new. We all work together to better each other. I'm so happy & thrilled to be teaching this class that it relight my spark again.

Now, with that being said,
Does anyone here have a website to look at some of the different requirements for the different belt levels? I'd like to see what is updated material or what might be a good idea to keep or to remove. I'm in the process of putting togehter some requirements & have my old sheets but would like to view some other ideas.

Thanks for the help.
Salute,
jason
 

Latest Discussions

Top