QUestion for the Libs...

[psi_radar]

Yeah... when I ride to 7-11 to get my cup of Bush/Kerry coffee, I often will not put my Helmet on...

Why? Its a 4 block ride on a 25mph sidestreet.

Can I still be killed in an accident? Absolutley. Is it as likely as if I got on an Interstate highway and went 90? No...

Most motorcycling accidents happen less than five miles from the home at modest speeds. With no one else on the road you'd probably be safe on that jaunt to the 7-eleven, but I bet there's some intersections where a cage could blow a stop sign and turn you into a grease spot.

SHould I have the choice what to do with my body, as much as say, any woman trying to decide if she wants to give birth? Or maybe as much as you have deciding if you want to posion yourself with alcohol?

There are legal limitations to alcohol--you're not allowed to drink until you're twenty-one, three years after you're legally allowed to kill someone while serving in the military. Bartenders are legally bound not to serve obvious drunks. Wearing a helmet is up to you, at least in my state. I've just seen a lot of bad accidents and had a few without. I hate seeing people ride without gear. I also think a lot of new riders haven't seen or experienced what can happen, and would change their minds if they did. Like I said, a good compromise might be to limit permissions on an experience and licencing level.

As for equating the helmet laws with the right to choose, I think it's apples and oranges. I'm not touching that.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

True. And heavy drug users, although single-event blunt trauma is easier to study results than long-term chemical trauma, I think. Perhaps if I had more faith in my fellow man, it wouldn't worry me as much. I see motorcyclists zooming through our little town with no helmet, no leathers, looking pretty pink and vulnerable on their bikes. Maybe people should start worrying about wearing their leathers along with the helmets. (as others have already mentioned here.)

 

[Cryozombie]

Perhaps if I had more faith in my fellow man, it wouldn't worry me as much. I see motorcyclists zooming through our little town with no helmet, no leathers, looking pretty pink and vulnerable on their bikes. Maybe people should start worrying about wearing their leathers along with the helmets. (as others have already mentioned here.)

50% of motorcyle fatalities are from head trauma. With or without helmets. Protective clothing is nice for things like Low-side falls where you are gonna ride the pavement, helps not to get things like, oh, say, skin grafts... Its also great against Bugs, rocks, and other airborne debris.

It does no good against impacts and high-side falls, unless you happen to be wearing armor under (or in) your jacket that might minimize impact. Typically on the elbows and spine, and, if you have armored riding pants the knees and hips. But, as martial artists, good rolling and falling skills would aid that too...

Being informed and making an informed decision probably means a heck of a lot more than government regulation would. I mean, if we really wanna make bikes safe, maybe we should require all bikes have 4 wheels and roll cages before they are street legal?

 

[bignick]

interesting note here...the safety equipment for cars...a seat belt, air bag, etc...comes equipped on all or most(in case of air bags) cars...the safety gear for a motorcycle is a lot more indepth...leather or another study material, armor, helmet, goggles or glasses depending on your helmet, gloves, boots...etc....how much of that comes with the motorcycle?

i'm sure if you're buying a brand new bike from a company or dealer you could maybe get them to throw in a free helmet or maybe a jacket...but normally...your given the vehicle without the safety devices...unlike cars....when i drive i always buckle up...i know too many people that have died in car accidents...and the only bumper sticker i have is reminding people to do the same... http://buckleupforaaron.com is a foundation started by my aunt when my cousin died in a car crash...i can name at least four others off the top of my head...but the main reason i don't really wear safety equipment is that i don't own it and really can't afford it...

i don't know where this was meant to go...but the difference between seat belts and other safety equip. for motorcycles popped into my head and i was just wondering what other people thought about this...

 

[Phoenix44]

p.s. my opinion of helmet laws are the same as seat belt laws ... if you get in an accident and die ... good riddence to bad trash.

Agreed. BUT if you get into an accident, bash your brains in and LIVE, then I'M going to be paying for your diapers and physical therapy for the rest of your miserable life. And THAT is why helmet laws and safer vehicles are in OUR best interest.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

So being a Liberal that's in the military, You are basically telling me that I am a Traitor, and a threat to national security?

No, you are a liberal who is serving his country - thank you!

 

[Spud]

Much like Pheonix44 says, it becomes a public health issue when Medicaid is paying for people with Tramatic Brain Injuries. I see where the state has an interest. Is it a compelling interest? I'm not sure. Regardless, I always wear a helmet when cycling or skiing.

I don't see it as a lib/conservative issue in my state as the conservatives run the place, but we have many of the same approaches to primary seat belt laws, child seats, immunizations etc. Motorcyle helmets aren't required but the state pushes the STAR safe riding program very hard.

 

[Feisty Mouse]

No, you are a liberal who is serving his country - thank you!

So you are thanking someone who is

two-faced, forked tongued, hypocrites who cannot be trusted.

for serving? Or are you conceding that not all liberals are the monsters you imagine them to be?

 

[Patrick Skerry]

So you are thanking someone who is


for serving? Or are you conceding that not all liberals are the monsters you imagine them to be?

Sometimes a liberal can do the 'right' thing.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

Sometimes a liberal can do the 'right' thing.

Interpretation: Crow tastes goooood.

 

[Patrick Skerry]

Interpretation: Crow tastes goooood.

Interpretation: Now I've seen everything!

 

[OULobo]

Yeah... when I ride to 7-11 to get my cup of Bush/Kerry coffee, I often will not put my Helmet on...

Why? Its a 4 block ride on a 25mph sidestreet.

Then why not just walk?

Most motorcycling accidents happen less than five miles from the home at modest speeds. With no one else on the road you'd probably be safe on that jaunt to the 7-eleven, but I bet there's some intersections where a cage could blow a stop sign and turn you into a grease spot.

Most motorcycle accidents are just some fool dumping his bike because he lost footing. Stats that state most accidents happen within five miles of residence are usually classifying minor fenderbenders and DUIs that just run off the road as "accidents". Look at the list of fatal car or motorcycle accidents for a better view of the dangerous bike riding behaviors.

When I ride, I never wear my helmet. I know I'm stupid. I could throw excuses up, like, "I don't ride freeways or long distances," but the truth is it is more fun and it's legal without a helmet. It is a calculated risk, and one that I think I, and anyone else who rides, should have the ability to take if they wish. I will qualify that if I rode long distances or high speeds I would wear my helmet, but I think it is still a choice.

 

[OULobo]

Agreed. BUT if you get into an accident, bash your brains in and LIVE, then I'M going to be paying for your diapers and physical therapy for the rest of your miserable life. And THAT is why helmet laws and safer vehicles are in OUR best interest.

I don't see how this relates. I have heard it said, but I don't get the connection. I know, and have heard of, many people that get into accidents, car, motorcycle, ect., and the gov. isn't stepping up to help in any context, least of all help with medical expenses. They or their families are responsible for any and all of their medical expenses. Yes, if they have insurance, then some of it is covered, but they have been paying for that for years, it's just part of the insurance business. The only time I hear the government taking a part in payment is if the victim is elderly (medicaid/care) or destitute. Niether or which have an abudance of motorcycle rider representation. Not many welfare families can afford a bike. I guess I can see if you say that it raises insurace rates as a whole or that it costs in emergancy services tax money, but to me those are things that I pay for too regardless of how I ride.

 

[Tgace]

It should also be noted (and correct me if I'm wrong on this) that seat belt laws are a secondary offense, meaning that a cop can't pull you over for it, but can cite you for it if they see you're not wearing your seat belt if they've pulled you over for something else. I don't know if the helmet laws would be treated the same.

Depends on the state. In some states this is true. In NY I can use seatbelts as PC for a stop.

 

[Tgace]

The sad truth is that many of these laws are from victims and families of victims gaining support for these laws and taking them to the politicians...."I have seen the enemy and he is us". Seatbelts, DWI laws, helmets, driving with cell phones and on down the line....

 

[psi_radar]

Here's a page with some great research on these subjects:

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/research.htm


If you're a drunk older guy on a harley with no helmet, according to statistics you might as well just shoot yourself and get it over with. The over 49 age group riding 1000-1500 cc bikes are the demographic with the highest increase of fatalities. They don't distinguish between v-twin and I-4, but I think we can assume they're not all riding Hayabusas.

 

[bignick]

i've seen this in my hometown where there has been a rash of motorcycle fever...it seems like everyone and their grandmother's got a bike...and the one's that i think are in the most trouble are the older guys(read: midlife crisis) that go out and buy the bike and the leathers and all the gear and hop on without every really learning how to ride...someone with experience and no helmet is a lot safer than someone with all the gear and no experience that wants to go on an 8 hour ride...obviously you're safer wearing protective gear if you're a new rider than without any...but i know a lot of them don't even have a motorcycle license, which is required in minnesota...

 

[Tkang_TKD]

Sometimes a liberal can do the 'right' thing.

Or maybe the word liberal is too often demonized. In truth, I do believe the party of Lincoln were at one point the big liberals. And all of the good liberal things (like freeing slaves, women's voting rights, integration in the school house, etc...) that have happened in our country, I just can't understand why "liberal" is such a bad word.

 

[psi_radar]

...someone with experience and no helmet is a lot safer than someone with all the gear and no experience that wants to go on an 8 hour ride...obviously you're safer wearing protective gear if you're a new rider than without any...but i know a lot of them don't even have a motorcycle license, which is required in minnesota...

I absolutely agree with you. Skill and experience go a long way in motorcycle safety. By the way Nick, don't let the expense of safety equipment keep you from buying any. You can find great deals on ebay and companies like HJC and Suomy make DOT approved helmets for very reasonable prices. Also, dealers will usually throw in gear with the purchase of a cycle if you press them on it.

 

[Cryozombie]

i've seen this in my hometown where there has been a rash of motorcycle fever...it seems like everyone and their grandmother's got a bike...and the one's that i think are in the most trouble are the older guys(read: midlife crisis) that go out and buy the bike and the leathers and all the gear and hop on without every really learning how to ride...someone with experience and no helmet is a lot safer than someone with all the gear and no experience that wants to go on an 8 hour ride...obviously you're safer wearing protective gear if you're a new rider than without any...but i know a lot of them don't even have a motorcycle license, which is required in minnesota...

I absolutley agree with this... I put almost 4k miles on my bike riding on a Learners permit (Read that as: With an Experienced rider) AND completed the states Motorcycle Rider Saftey Course before I got my licence. Even tho Ive only been riding a couple years, I think at this point, I have proven myself responsible enough to choose...