Question... and I'm sure you've heard this a million times...

[kidswarrior]

That bent wrist is something Praying Mantis specializes in, one of many weapons in their arsenal. Other CMA's use something similar & I can tell from experience it is a painful blow. Here's aother opiton to think about, the coiled energy of that bent wrist released into a conditioned palm strike.

Exactly right, HG1.

Another possibility I learned/now teach (not mantis, but maybe they have something similar), is striking with the end of the arm bones at/above the bent wrist. I call this the oxjaw, although have seen it called other things as well (would have to look it up though, am thinking I saw it in Xing Yi :idunno.

Most people when first seeing this believe it's striking with the wrist, when in fact it's anything but: the bent wrist keeps both it and the hand out of the way, and allows for a very powerful strike.You see this targeted often to the chin, solar plexus, groin, and other *upward* targets. But just a note on another interesting application for this strike: if the palm is quickly turned upward, the twisting oxjaw can be brought down and really pack a punch. Likely targets are numerous, e.g., collar bone, shoulder, bridge of nose, temple, hinge of jaw, neck, and even the arms and otherwise not-usually-thought-of-as-targets can get a good reaction.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Exactly right, HG1.

Another possibility I learned/now teach (not mantis, but maybe they have something similar), is striking with the end of the arm bones at/above the bent wrist. I call this the oxjaw, although have seen it called other things as well (would have to look it up though, am thinking I saw it in Xing Yi :idunno.

I am not 100% certain from the description but you may be talking about Piquan which is not really a strike with the arm it is a strike with the palm but there is a lot of coiling energy used in the set up and attack. The strike itself, at a lower level such as mine, is a combination of downward and forward. At higher levels, I am told, it is 3 directional downward, forward and upwards. Thus giving to the myth of the magic of Xingyi striking power and its ability to knock people backwards many feet. It basically messes up the opponent’s defense response. Or that is my low level understanding of it.

There are however arm strikes in Xingyiquan but they tend to be the forearm. But then I only know Wu Xing of Hebei style and there are other styles and 10 or 12 animal forms depending on the style so I could be WAAAAY off here in understanding your description. Hell I know to similar but still very different, in places, versions of Hebei Xingyiquan Wu Xing so it could be in Hebei just a variation I do not know.

 

[kidswarrior]

There are however arm strikes in Xingyiquan but they tend to be the forearm.

That's what the oxjaw is. It's the very end of the forearm, with the wrist tucked down so wrist/bones in hand don't get mauled. So, it looks like a wrist strike, but really is an end-of-arm strike. It would work for someone who didn't even have a hand. The flat surface at end of arm is used, so both bones of the forearm hit simultaneously, making it a very hard strike and protecting the arm much better than if just the radius or ulna is used. Think the flat of the knife instead of the edge of the knife--or maybe more accurately, the flat of the knife handle.

Anyway, that's probably clear as mud, but it's a great, useful, devastaing blow, and can be used with both hands swirling in circles and even figure eights. This gives a meshing motion, too, so the striking doubles as blocking.

OK, end of rant.

 

[Xue Sheng]

OK, end of rant.

That was a rant I'LL SHOW YOU ARE RANT :uhyeah:

Then I believe you are referring to the turn in Paoquan or just Paoquan depending on which version I am doing... I think.

I’m at my office and it is kind of hard for me to run through it here without attracting much attention to myself (to be honest they are already doubting my sanity and are bit afraid of me :EG and I am not quite confident enough in my Xingyi at this point to say it is definitely Paoquan

 

[Flying Crane]

I’m at my office

aren't we all?

 

[kidswarrior]

I’m at my office and it is kind of hard for me to run through it here without attracting much attention to myself (to be honest they are already doubting my sanity and are bit afraid of me :EG and I am not quite confident enough in my Xingyi at this point to say it is definitely Paoquan

Now I know we've talked about the importance of you staying on your meds....:lol:

I'm not at home, either, but will look in my Xingyi books later and see if I can find it.

 

[Xue Sheng]

aren't we all?

You're all at MY office :xtrmshock

DAMN then this should be a WHOLE lot more fun than it is

 

[Xue Sheng]

Now I know we've talked about the importance of you staying on your meds....:lol:

I'm not at home, either, but will look in my Xingyi books later and see if I can find it.

MEDS!!! :anic: Meds you say :uhoh: I know not of these meds you speak of :uhyeah:

 

[Xue Sheng]

I'm not at home, either, but will look in my Xingyi books later and see if I can find it.

OK, I'm an idiot

Hengquan was the form I was thinking of that was close to your description.

Xingyiquan wu xing

piquan – splitting fist – metal
zuanquan – drilling fist – water
bengquan –smashing fist – wood
paoquan – pounding fist – fire
hengquan – crossing fist - earth

 

[Sukerkin]

Cheers for the elaboration, Xue. Also, forgive my spurling earroar in my Rep Buff - I could delete it and write it again I suppose but the implicit ironic comedy of mispelling 'Idiot' stayed my hand :lol:.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Cheers for the elaboration, Xue. Also, forgive my spurling earroar in my Rep Buff - I could delete it and write it again I suppose but the implicit ironic comedy of mispelling 'Idiot' stayed my hand :lol:.

Don't you dare I'm a big fan of irony

 

[kidswarrior]

OK, I'm an idiot

Hengquan was the form I was thinking of that was close to your description.

Xingyiquan wu xing

piquan – splitting fist – metal
zuanquan – drilling fist – water
bengquan –smashing fist – wood
paoquan – pounding fist – fire
hengquan – crossing fist - earth

Well, my description obviously sucks 'cos what I'm thinking of is not in that magnificent form.

The closest I can find is Paul Eng's picture of the 'Mantis Claw or Cranesbeak' in Martial Arts Basics (Tuttle). Problem is, he's focused on the fingers/seizing aspect, and I'm thinking of the bent wrist/striking aspect.

I seem to recall someone calling this a chicken wrist, also, but can't find an index (except in Chinese ) in any of my books. Also, this may be more of a kempo thing than CMA (you know I'm schizophrenic when it comes to my MA background ).

So, guess I'll just have to live with being misunderstood.

*Starts to sing* Born to lose....*orchestra begins in background* :dramaqueen: :rofl:

 

[Sukerkin]

Is that "Born to Lose" by UFO by any chance?

As to the 'bent wrist' strikes, we used to use something that sounds very similar in Lau whereby you would intercept a punch by a strong upward movement to connect underneath the opponents forearm with the end of your own forarm bones.

 

[kidswarrior]

Is that "Born to Lose" by UFO by any chance?

I was thinking of Ray Charles, but I'm sure it's been remade several times.

As to the 'bent wrist' strikes, we used to use something that sounds very similar in Lau whereby you would intercept a punch by a strong upward movement to connect underneath the opponents forearm with the end of your own forarm bones.

Yes, that's it! Now take out the intercept (or add to it) and use as an upward strike (chin, solar plexus, groin). Then for fun, turn it over at the top of its arc, and bring down on opponent's nose, collar bone, back of neck if he's bent over, etc.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I was thinking of Ray Charles, but I'm sure it's been remade several times.

Yes, that's it! Now take out the intercept (or add to it) and use as an upward strike (chin, solar plexus, groin). Then for fun, turn it over at the top of its arc, and bring down on opponent's nose, collar bone, back of neck if he's bent over, etc.

Is this something like cranes beak in Taiji? (Tung Hu Lings right hand)

That can be used as a strike with the fingers or the wrist but it is more often used like a block or hook to trap, pull and defend.

 

[East Winds]

We use this strike in Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan. Its the strike with the right arm in Single Whip. Exactly as you guys describe. Striking with the ends of the long arm bones with fingers in the Cranes Beak position.

Very best wishes