Question about training and self defense

[morph4me]

This question came up in another thread, and rather than derail that one, I am starting this thread.

When you train SD you can't destroy all your training partners so that's what you can do outside if attacked, you have to pull your punches. If you are what you train does that then mean you pull your punches when attacked?

I would say that if that's all you train, then yes, you'll more than likely pull your punches when you don't intend to. That's why its important to train hitting the heavy bag and pads, so you have the opportunity to throw your punches, kicks etc. with full speed and power, and also why it's important to get hit in training, so you don't freeze if it happens because someone is trying to impose their will on you.

 

[Drac]

This question came up in another thread, and rather than derail that one, I am starting this thread.

When you train SD you can't destroy all your training partners so that's what you can do outside if attacked, you have to pull your punches. If you are what you train does that then mean you pull your punches when attacked?

I would say its a mind set thing...If attacked or threatned outside of school your mind registers that THIS IS REAL and you won't pull your punches..Well I never have and my employment has made me a target MANY TIMES...

That's why its important to train hitting the heavy bag and pads, so you have the opportunity to throw your punches, kicks etc. with full speed and power, and also why it's important to get hit in training, so you don't freeze if it happens because someone is trying to impose their will on you.

EXCELLENT paragraph...We incorporate the heavy bags, small and large pads and some drills where you feel what it is like to get hit.. Pain inoculation is a good thing..

 

[Tez3]

I had been training for nearly seven years in karate before I moved clubs and was punched for the first time! It was a helluva shock I can tell you!!
We'd done linework and katas and self defence. We thought the self defence moves would keep us safe. I shudder now to think of that. We were taught what to do if someone grabbed our wrist, a quick twist and hey we were free. Simple. Then I met my current instructor, a quick twist I was free and then he hit me! Errr? WTF? I don't swear but the words I was muttering under breath would have turned the air blue lol! of course he was only doing what an attacker would do.
The upshot of that was he showed me how to follow through with an attack/defence and not rely on pretty 'dancing' movements which look effective when trained with a very compliant partner who never put anything on so that you could feel any pain, we weren't allowed to.
So apart from being thrown out of that club for being 'too aggressive' lol, I now am not fazed by being punched ( I don't like it but I don't freeze) I have a great deal more pain when training these days but more confidence and the ability that I know I have to also inflict pain.

 

[Drac]

The first time Sensei lands one a good one because you did not do what he said it makes a lasting impression and banishes that fear of being hit..Well for me anyway..

 

[KempoGuy06]

ive been hit in ever class ive attended. No exaggerating. Every class. PLus i have sparring where im hit a good number of times.

B

 

[Rich Parsons]

The first time Sensei lands one a good one because you did not do what he said it makes a lasting impression and banishes that fear of being hit..Well for me anyway..

Instructor: Go ahead close you eyes.
Instructor: *Smack up side the head or punch to chest*
Student: * in shock* Ouch! That hurt
Instructor: Now keep your eyes open and we will do this again and see if it hurst as much.

It does hurt as much but at least you see it coming and get a chance to try to react.

 

[KempoGuy06]

Instructor: Go ahead close you eyes.
Instructor: *Smack up side the head or punch to chest*
Student: * in shock* Ouch! That hurt
Instructor: Now keep your eyes open and we will do this again and see if it hurst as much.

It does hurt as much but at least you see it coming and get a chance to try to react.

LOL...Thats pretty good. and true

B

 

[Rich Parsons]

This question came up in another thread, and rather than derail that one, I am starting this thread.

When you train SD you can't destroy all your training partners so that's what you can do outside if attacked, you have to pull your punches. If you are what you train does that then mean you pull your punches when attacked?

I would say that if that's all you train, then yes, you'll more than likely pull your punches when you don't intend to. That's why its important to train hitting the heavy bag and pads, so you have the opportunity to throw your punches, kicks etc. with full speed and power, and also why it's important to get hit in training, so you don't freeze if it happens because someone is trying to impose their will on you.

I have seen people who only get close do that when showing off or posturing pull their punchs or kicks. I have seen those who have never done any hitting of anything also pull their attacks.

I agree that working with your partners with contact is good as well as pad work and bag work.

I would say its a mind set thing...If attacked or threatned outside of school your mind registers that THIS IS REAL and you won't pull your punches..Well I never have and my employment has made me a target MANY TIMES...




EXCELLENT paragraph...We incorporate the heavy bags, small and large pads and some drills where you feel what it is like to get hit.. Pain inoculation is a good thing..

I do not have as much opportunity as I used too, but when it was real, I never had problems making contact.

After some mistakes and people getting hurt, I did have a period of time where I hesitated and I found that I got hurt a lot more. Hesitation is not pulling the attack. It is a different issue. But in the end when contact was made it was made for real.

 

[jks9199]

Because you quickly run out of training partners if you hit them full force, lots of other methods of training have been developed. There's a place for light & medium contact sparring to help develop logistics and timing, and learn how to execute your techniques against an opponent who's not simply being a punching bag. Heavy contact sparring with appropriate pads allows you to hit and be hit with near full force. Other exercises like partner drills or two person kata can allow you to execute the techniques with full force because you build a "fatal flaw" in that avoids the killing stroke; maybe your partner rolls with the throw, or you guide their fall, for example. Bag and pad work lets you pound full force into targets. Solo work (shadow boxing, kata/forms, etc) lets you develop muscle memory and flow for the techniques. Scenario training allows you to replicate much of the stress of a real encounter. And so on...

Each type of training has it's place and purpose. Neglect one, and you're overall training will suffer. Put too much emphasis on one, and, again, your training will suffer.

 

[zDom]

For me, the combination of TKD and HKD, as taught at the dojangs where I trained, has worked out great for me.

Before beginning martial art training, I had been in more than a couple scraps. I found my top problems were:

a) closing the gap to get my strikes in without getting hit first

b) generating a powerful strike without telegraphing so it was easily avoided

c) dealing with "wrestlers"

TKD ended up solving the first two fairly quickly. I was fortunate to be training at a time when there were a couple of guys willing to "play rough" but with enough mutual respect and control so we weren't injuring each other.

Specifically, taking hard shots to the side of the face, jaw or forehead can ring the bell (equal to or even exceeding how hard I'd been hit "on the street") but not splattering each other's noses or splitting each other open (er.. there were occassionally cuts... but we made efforts to avoid that kind of contact).

There were times when I was aware that we were dancing on the line between a real fist (and foot ) fight and "sparring." As much intensity and (at times) contact as a real fight was definately there, but the emotion was not. Following the sparring, it was bows and handshakes and smiles.

I learned to get hit HARD and keep my head in the fight. To keep my eyes LOCKED on the opponent, even if getting hit right in the face. To pick my shots and hit them with precision and power — and in combinations of precisely placed strikes.

With FOCUS you can throw everything as hard and fast as you can — you just focus just in front of the surface instead of an inch or two INSIDE, so there is NO "pulling" punches or kicks.

And yes, heavy bags ARE important. I often say some good heavy bag work is some of the best self defense training you can get!

Breaking boards is also a good exercise: you train yourself to short-circuit subconciously "slowing down" strikes at impact so strikes can with hit with penetration at full speed and power.

So did it translate to self defense? You betcha. I've found that it is EASY now to bridge the gap. And as far as power? In the few times I've had to defend myself since training, I've found that very few are used to getting hit as hard as I strike. It usually only takes ONE good shot. And that "good shot" usually is almost always my first strike (the beauty of precision striking...).

As for the third, hapkido (as I've been taught) filled that gap perfectly.

People who have, in the very few times, managed to grab ahold of me regret it.

I by no means believe myself to be "invulnerable," but no martial art training — heck, even a GUN and body armor! — can render you invulnerable.

But the odds have significantly been shifted toward being in my favor.

I make better decisions nowadays and half expect that I may never have to defend myself or a loved one ever again. But should I need to? I feel well prepared. Now it is all about maintaining and honing.

 

[Tez3]

As a female and from teaching women I know the hardest thing is actually learning to hit. Not how to hit but to hit hard enough and with the intention to hurt someone.With new starters even hitting a bag hard can be difficult, girls aren't trained to hit the same way boys are. This is mostly cultural as females, once over the hurdle of being reluctant to hurt people are very efficient fighters.
Women I think , need to be 'given permission' to defend themselves, sounds odd but many martial arts which attract women who want to defend themselves only do the air punching and very light contact sparring. Women feel comfortable in these classes and end up with the mistaken belief that because they can spar lightly they are then safe on the streets.
The martial arts and self defence classes where techniques are taught properly tend to put off the very people who need them because a certain amount of pain is involved. This may be true of men as well?

 

[Drac]

The martial arts and self defence classes where techniques are taught properly tend to put off the very people who need them because a certain amount of pain is involved. This may be true of men as well?

Off Topic Post...Shortly after I left the Shorin-Ryu dojo I was told that Joe Shmoe came in and signed up..During one of the first strike/block drills he caught a small hit to the side of the face, not even hard enough to dislodge his mouth guard..He walked out telling Sensei and all students that he didnt pay to get beat up???

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

You have to train to hit something. Be it focus matts,Bag,Tree(Like some people hehe) or whatever. You have to feel the commitment of the strike.

Besides sometimes it just feels good to put your fist into something.

 

[jks9199]

As a female and from teaching women I know the hardest thing is actually learning to hit. Not how to hit but to hit hard enough and with the intention to hurt someone.With new starters even hitting a bag hard can be difficult, girls aren't trained to hit the same way boys are. This is mostly cultural as females, once over the hurdle of being reluctant to hurt people are very efficient fighters.
Women I think , need to be 'given permission' to defend themselves, sounds odd but many martial arts which attract women who want to defend themselves only do the air punching and very light contact sparring. Women feel comfortable in these classes and end up with the mistaken belief that because they can spar lightly they are then safe on the streets.
The martial arts and self defence classes where techniques are taught properly tend to put off the very people who need them because a certain amount of pain is involved. This may be true of men as well?

Off Topic Post...Shortly after I left the Shorin-Ryu dojo I was told that Joe Shmoe came in and signed up..During one of the first strike/block drills he caught a small hit to the side of the face, not even hard enough to dislodge his mouth guard..He walked out telling Sensei and all students that he didnt pay to get beat up???

Watch me magically pull on off-topic post back to the topic!

Over the last several months, I've been ramping up some of the contact and reality in my class, doing things like moderate contact "body boxing" (hits to body, no contact to face). I've got a student who's just afraid to hit... among other things. And it's just necessary for proper training.

Well, we have a prospective new student wander in one night... And I proceed to give a great rant about how real martial arts training, if it's to prepare you for real world self defense, has to include some pain and injury. Bruises and even cuts are going to happen... In fact, "way back when I was a student", we'd sit down after class and match up the bruises with each other!

I was afraid that I'd scared her away. But she's been going strong, great attitude. I just have to get her to actually throw punches at me...

(Next... rabbits out of hats. If I can avoid that pesky moose & squirrel I keep tripping over in my hat...)

 

[Drac]

Watch me magically pull on off-topic post back to the topic!

Harry Houdini has nothing on you

Over the last several months, I've been ramping up some of the contact and reality in my class, doing things like moderate contact "body boxing" (hits to body, no contact to face). I've got a student who's just afraid to hit... among other things. And it's just necessary for proper training.

Absolutly...

Well, we have a prospective new student wander in one night... And I proceed to give a great rant about how real martial arts training, if it's to prepare you for real world self defense, has to include some pain and injury. Bruises and even cuts are going to happen... In fact, "way back when I was a student", we'd sit down after class and match up the bruises with each other

I was afraid that I'd scared her away. But she's been going strong, great attitude. I just have to get her to actually throw punches at me

Sounds like she will come around...

 

[Deaf Smith]

I've been to schools where there is ZERO contact 99 percent of the time. Even blocking they expect you not to put much power into it (guess what's gonna happen when they meet someone who kicks and punchs very hard!)

A way around this is to use a punching bag that is on rollers (like a Century wavemaster on a set of furniture rollers.) That way it's moble. Also both you and your sparring partner wear shin and arm guards, if not full helmuts. Just now and then have some contact. It's much different than no-contact sparring I assure you.

Deaf