We have an Aikidoka that trains with us in Qinna, and I also have a Wing Woo Gar student that is a Nidan in Aikido. The differences mostly have to do with entries and follow ups. I’m not trying to angle for throws, I seize, lock, and strike. I have no aikido experience other than sparring with some here and there. Wing WooGar is an aggressive striking style that contrasts with some set ups in Qinna. Tai Chi Chuan lends itself more to Qinna entries. I can defeat a fair amount of Qinna techniques using Wing Woo Gar principles. I am always most interested in counters to whatever I’m learning. I like reverse engineering in this regard. The nuances in Qinna are what make it impossible to learn from a book or video. Dr Yang acknowledges this fact regularly. Last Sunday he said that more than 8 people is too many to teach Qinna effectively. I can only train Qinna for 2 hours twice a week due to the pain after. He has had a 3 day Qinna seminar requested with 75 people, by the third day, only a few had continued to the end because three long days of that would crush the desire to learn it from most folks. There really is no other way to learn it than to have it done to you correctly. No wonder hardly anyone teaches a full curriculum specifically for Qinna. He says only a few of his thousands of students were sociopathic enough to learn the full catalogue of techniques.
Pretty sure I wrote this before, but many years ago, when Dr Yang's main school was still in Boston, I was at a push hands seminar and during lunch I was talking to one of his teaching assistants about the people that go to the seminars he helps at. He said, Qigong people are ok, but a little spacey, Taiji people are generally ok and pretty centered, the qinna people all belong in prison
Yes i remember you saying this. Dr Yang says something similar, he calls me “naughty boy” and says with a chuckle that I’m good at making my opponents make happy faces. If I go too gentle he will tell me to “make them happy”.
Yes! You have to be able to make one flow to the other, concepts and principles of angle and leverage are the things that make it work. As far as good body structure defeating techniques goes, I can break the structure first if necessary, but if you move faster, and/or they don’t recognize the technique it can still be very effective. Qinna requires very little strength, most people will Qinna themselves. Best examples of two skilled Qinna players will maybe go through 12-15 techniques in a couple of seconds before one actually succeeds.
This video looks like our practice sessions. Free form attempts with various body types is very informative.
agree....
agree....
Mr. Lo, in his 70s at the time of the video,
was working with some visitors from the U.S.
In Beijing, we used this context to practice.
He would let someone attempt a lock — then either empty (空, kōng) or neutralize (化, huà) at the point of contact.
Unlike typical Chin Na (擒拿), which seeks control through structure and grip, this approach allows the opponent to think they’ve gained control — only to find there’s nothing there to hold.
Rather than resisting or countering,
his method is based on never giving the opponent anything to control.
You have often asked if the teachers allow the student to do what was demoed on them..
At this point, the visitor has his hand reaching for the neck.
Mr. Lo had just performed the technique on him—
and now allows the visitor to try it on him in return.
He lets the visitor change the point of contact,
which results in Mr. Lo being thrown out one ca
agree....
Mr. Lo, in his 70s at the time of the video,
was working with some visitors from the U.S.
In Beijing, we used this context to practice.
He would let someone attempt a lock — then either empty (空, kōng) or neutralize (化, huà) at the point of contact.
Unlike typical Chin Na (擒拿), which seeks control through structure and grip, this approach allows the opponent to think they’ve gained control — only to find there’s nothing there to hold.
Rather than resisting or countering,
his method is based on never giving the opponent anything to control.
You have often asked if the teachers allow the student to do what was demoed on them..
At this point, the visitor has his hand reaching for the neck.
Mr. Lo had just performed the technique on him—
and now allows the visitor to try it on him in return.
He lets the visitor change the point of contact,
which results in Mr. Lo being thrown out.
Kind of the point — it's a different method, based on different principles.
Using qin'na against a grab is fairly easy as the opponent has provided the opportunity. Against an active combat situation, placing a qin'na type compound joint lock (involving a chain of 2, 3, or even 4 joints) is complex and difficult. Everything must be just right. It is recommended to set up with effective striking to render the opponent momentarily defenseless and then enter for the lock.
My taijiquan shifu was the best at qinna i ever saw, or experienced. Never knew he was going to use qinna until i was locked. Everyone else i felt it coming, some i could stop, some i couldn’t. But not my Yang taijiquan shifu.
Kicking and punching are in that video. This makes the joint locking more realistic.
I have to disagree with you on this. "Finger break" (the 1st joint lock that peopel will learn) is a good example. No matter how strong his body structure may be, you will break his finger. When you do that, you are only dealing with his 1 finger. You are not dealing with his whole body.
