Qinna/Chin na what are your training experiences?

[Wing Woo Gar]

One might ask: what is Chin Na (擒拿)?

In general Chin Na means “seize and control” — referring to techniques used to restrain or disable an opponent through joint locks, muscle manipulation, or structural disruption.

How it’s applied varies by system:

External styles (like Shaolin, Eagle Claw) tend to rely on force, speed, and leverage.

Internal styles (like Taiji) emphasize timing, connection, and whole-body integration. Control isn’t forced — it’s revealed, often when the opponent overcommits or loses their center.

In Taiji, it’s not about chasing limbs — it’s about meeting intention. The four guiding principles apply:

沾 (Zhān) – Touch-stick
黏 (Nián) – Adhere
连 (Lián) – Join
随 (Suí) – Follow

Control isn’t taken — it’s offered, often without the other realizing it.

Find the discussion interesting. Reading the different viewpoints helps me clarify
or sometimes challenge — my own.

I can appreciate various viewpoints and methods, be they hard or soft. I appreciate your participation.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I have the same question. If I remain 10 feet distance from you, am I counter your Chin Na?

When discussion get involved with Taiji, it suddenly becomes abstract.


You have not responded my question about Taiji "finger break" counter yet. When I try to break my opponent's finger, I truly don't care about his "intention" and I'm "chasing limbs".

I like to be able change from one to the other. I think all methods are potentially valid depending on the circumstances.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have to disagree with you on this. "Finger break" (the 1st joint lock that peopel will learn) is a good example. No matter how strong his body structure may be, you will break his finger. When you do that, you are only dealing with his 1 finger. You are not dealing with his whole body.

Just for the sake of this discussion, how would you counter this "Devil's hand shake" by using whole body connection and timing? After your opponent's other hand get hold of your shaking hand, it's pretty hard to pull your hand back.

I see options for disrupting these techniques.

Finger break-step around behind him to change the angle and take pressure off the fingers.

Devils handshake, when he turns his back to grab with the other hand, grab his arm with the left to stop him rotating further, then drive forward with the legs and shove his head into the nearest wall/tree/passing car/mack truck/plate glass window…

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Devils handshake, when he turns his back to grab with the other hand, grab his arm with the left to stop him rotating further,

Agree! This is a good example that Taiji "yield and follow" won't work. You have to use "force against force" to stop your opponent's body rotation.

 

[Flying Crane]

Agree! This is a good example that Taiji "yield and follow" won't work. You have to use "force against force" to stop your opponent's body rotation.

I believe it’s more nuanced than simply “force against force” and isn’t an indictment of Taiji. Placing the left hand on his left elbow or the left upper arm just above the elbow as he turns can halt or hinder his rotation. Then, instead of pushing him away, you could move with his momentum and rotate and spin him to the right, either into a wall or other obstacle or release him and let him fall away. It could be a case of blending with the movement. In my opinion that would be consistent with Taiji principles as well as aikido principles from my own experience.

The mechanics to optimize this would include rooting and rotating as a unit, driving that rotation from the feet and legs, pressing from the ground-up. That is consistent with Tibetan Crane, actually.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I believe it’s more nuanced than simply “force against force” and isn’t an indictment of Taiji. Placing the left hand on his left elbow or the left upper arm just above the elbow as he turns can halt or hinder his rotation. Then, instead of pushing him away, you could move with his momentum and rotate and spin him to the right, either into a wall or other obstacle or release him and let him fall away. It could be a case of blending with the movement. In my opinion that would be consistent with Taiji principles as well as aikido principles from my own experience.

The mechanics to optimize this would include rooting and rotating as a unit, driving that rotation from the feet and legs, pressing from the ground-up. That is consistent with Tibetan Crane, actually.

To simplify, I would just kick him in his gooch or step into his knee when he turned his back.

 

[Flying Crane]

To simplify, I would just kick him in his gooch or step into his knee when he turned his back.

Yeah, the simple and the obvious are usually the best.