Punishing Your TKD Kids

[dancingalone]

A few years ago when my niece was still a colored belt, she was disrespectful with her mother when her mother asked her to do a chore. This was not a singular incident... just the climax. Mom chose to punish her by refusing to allow her to test for her next rank. My niece studies in one of those schools where you test every 3 months like clockwork. It's a real big deal there to miss a belt test since your friends will all outrank you at the next class.

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

 

[Miles]

Mom is a non-martial artist, but she is still Mom so she decides what is and isn't appropriate punishment for the child.

As an aside, I think it is great that this dojang has folks so geared up about training that it is punishment to not let them train.

 

[Stac3y]

Having a good attitude at home/being respectful of your parents is one of the testing requirements for our junior students. If parents say the kid isn't behaving appropriately, the kid doesn't test. Same goes for effort in school--not good grades, necessarily, but effort.

 

[terryl965]

Dad's and Mom's are that the parents if they choose to let there own kids not test it is there rights as a good parent. I am glad to have parents imput on whether there child is doing the right thing both at home and school.

 

[dancingalone]

Mom is a non-martial artist, but she is still Mom so she decides what is and isn't appropriate punishment for the child.

As an aside, I think it is great that this dojang has folks so geared up about training that it is punishment to not let them train.

Indeed.

I probably have a different opinion than most here, but as a school head I'm troubled by my sister's action.

I prefer not to mix daily life and martial arts if possible although of course I realize everything in one's life is intertwined. I like to say that the dojo is a place where you can get away from the deadline you have at work or the mortgage payment you have to write a check for. When you're at my dojo, I command your attention 100% because it can be dangerous at times if you're distracted and not committed to the exercise with all your resources. I am (was) disturbed that a domestic matter would erupt itself in the training hall.

 

[granfire]

Mom is the ultimate rank! :mst: (lol

Yes, kid is disrespectful, heads will roll, and not keeping up with the other kids, well, I am sure the kid had ample warning and sometimes the lessons of life come with a hard knock.

But it depends on the kids, what you can use.

Once things got hard refusing to let my kid test was no thread. Taking the video games away hurt much more ...

 

[KELLYG]

I think of testing as a reward for hard work in and out of the training hall. A student's after class attitude is just if not so more important that what they do in the training hall. I have seen students testing for higher ranked black belt and not allowed to test (at the last minute) by their parents. Needless to say the what ever ailed that student was self corrected in no time flat. Sometimes you learn more from your failures than your successes.

 

[IcemanSK]

I'll go you one better.

I started TKD in my sophomore year of high school. School instantly took a back seat to TKD, for me. My instructor (telling my parents after the fact) made me show him my report card. If it wasn't up to his standard, he wouldn't teach me. My parents loved the idea, BTW. But it was his idea.

It was the reason I focused on school at all.

I have students for whom being told by me or their parents they could not participate in a TKD event would bring a shrug or a "thank God" from the student. For others, it would be devastating to the student.

 

[mango.man]

At the dojang where my daughter got her start for the first 8 years or so of her TKD life, there were posted rules on the walls and that the kids had to memorize. After the rules were the consequences of violating the rules: "Those who do not follow these rules will be reduced in rank!"

So at about age 8 Samantha screwed up. I am not going to go into the details here of what she did, but I can honestly say that even to this day now almost 10 years later, I have never ever been more upset with her over anything that she has done, and like most kids she has done some pretty stupid things.

Well I went to her TKD instructors and explained what happened and how it had violated several of the posted rules and I insisted that she be "reduced in rank".

They looked at me like I was from another planet. Nobody, it seems, had ever asked for the consequences to be enforced on their child before I guess. But to their credit, they agreed to do it and later that day at the start of her class, she was called up to the front of the dojang in front of 25-30 fellow students and parents etc and asked to remove her red belt and got a blue belt tied around her waist, which at that school was a 3 belt reduction. It was heart breaking to watch as this little 8 year old girl was crying her eyes out in front of everyone and everyone was told what she did and that this was the consequence.

To my knowledge, Samantha has never done anything so stupid again, nor has anyone else that was in class that day. It's been a long time ago now though and I haven't seen most of those other kids for many years now, so who really knows what they have done or haven't done. But I believe that the example that I insisted be made of my kid did more good, not just for her but for everyone that saw it, than harm in the long run.

 

[Stac3y]

I look at testing differently from training. Testing is a reward for progress in training. I wouldn't keep my kids from going to class as punishment for bad behavior, because class is good for them. I don't restrict my kids from things that make them better kids. Punishment should take away the optional, stuff (like testing, or video games), not the healthy stuff (like training, or carrots.) Pulling a kid out of class because s/he is troubled just makes the situation worse, IMO.

 

[granfire]

I look at testing differently from training. Testing is a reward for progress in training. I wouldn't keep my kids from going to class as punishment for bad behavior, because class is good for them. I don't restrict my kids from things that make them better kids. Punishment should take away the optional, stuff (like testing, or video games), not the healthy stuff (like training, or carrots.) Pulling a kid out of class because s/he is troubled just makes the situation worse, IMO.

Well, yes, keeping training away can be counter productive, but then again it depends on the kid. if they neglect everything for Dojo time, well, then that's the one thing that hurts the most.

And OMG mangoman, what on earth did that little girl do - no, don't tell. I am sure that was the single most important event in her life. I am sure she will eventually tell her kids what a bada%% theior Gramps was (compared to the softy they know )
And yes, these days (I didn't know 10 years ago was already that bad) you are the odd duck if you tell instructors your poopsikin darling kid is not a perfect angel (gaspeth) and you want them to back you up on the punishment (feint)

 

[rlobrecht]

One of our friends has a child who is small for his age, and is ahead a grade (making him really small.) Some other kids were picking on him at school, and struck them (I don't know the details.) He was kept from TKD class for several weeks, and they wanted to take Cub Scouts away as well, but the mom is the Den Leader.

Our Sabumnim has said that if any of the kids are having issues outside of class (grades, etc.) that we can discuss it with him, and he'll take care of it. I've never seen anyone do it, but it's an interesting idea.

 

[FearlessFreep]

A few years ago when my niece was still a colored belt, she was disrespectful with her mother when her mother asked her to do a chore. This was not a singular incident... just the climax. Mom chose to punish her by refusing to allow her to test for her next rank. My niece studies in one of those schools where you test every 3 months like clockwork. It's a real big deal there to miss a belt test since your friends will all outrank you at the next class.

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

No.


My younger daughter tested for Black but has not been awarded it yet, even though she passed, due to some integrity issues *in the dojang*. That, to me, is important. I do not expect the instructor to handle discipline or behavior issues for things outside the school or not involving other students or martial arts itself; it's really none of his concern. But my wife and I observed some things in the dojang on the floor that the instructor was not aware of and we discussed it with him and the three of us decided in withholding the belt.

But I don't like to see students lose belt or otherwise disciplined in class or in the school for issues outside the school (especially, as you say, for a non-MA issues from a non-training parent). To me it's a cop-out to hold that over the kid's head

 

[Manny]

A few years ago when my niece was still a colored belt, she was disrespectful with her mother when her mother asked her to do a chore. This was not a singular incident... just the climax. Mom chose to punish her by refusing to allow her to test for her next rank. My niece studies in one of those schools where you test every 3 months like clockwork. It's a real big deal there to miss a belt test since your friends will all outrank you at the next class.

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

Good for the mom, if I was she and my kid need some kind of punishment for bad behavoir I will do the same.

Manny

 

[granfire]

No.


My younger daughter tested for Black but has not been awarded it yet, even though she passed, due to some integrity issues *in the dojang*. That, to me, is important. I do not expect the instructor to handle discipline or behavior issues for things outside the school or not involving other students or martial arts itself; it's really none of his concern. But my wife and I observed some things in the dojang on the floor that the instructor was not aware of and we discussed it with him and the three of us decided in withholding the belt.

But I don't like to see students lose belt or otherwise disciplined in class or in the school for issues outside the school (especially, as you say, for a non-MA issues from a non-training parent). To me it's a cop-out to hold that over the kid's head

Considering a lot of TKD schools do recite a number of tenets, live principles before each class, there is no non MA issue.

 

[chrispillertkd]

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

Absolutely.

Taekwon-Do aims to instill courtesy, integrity and the rest of the tenets in the practitioner. Failing to demonstrate those behaviors is a bigger deal than not being able to do, for example, a flying reverse hooking kick. It dosn't matter if the behavior occured at home because you're training is supposed to be for your whole life not just the time you spend in the dojang.

In this situation there is no need to call the student out to make an example of her and it will be readily apparent that something is up when she doesn't test with all her friends. Punishments/chastisements of a student should be done in privacy so as to protect their "kibun" IMNSHO. (This is in reference to the post where someone mentioned a student being demoted in front of the whole class. No need to do that. Doing it in private would've spared the student in question crying in front of class while at the same time preserving the import of the situation.)

Pax,

Chris

 

[Gorilla]

My take being a parent is that each parent should discipline their children as they see fit. I really respect Mango Man for what he did. Sam is a great girl and I have been watching her for years and she is a product of good parenting.

I am a big believer in the fact that if you don't discipline your children you will harm them for life.

I see TKD in reference to my kids as a life long pursuit. It is part of their life education. Therefore we don't use it as a punishment or as a reward. It is something that they do and will do for the rest of their lives. They see themselves as Martial Artists. They are very professional about it. I put it in the same importance as school.

 

[Carol]

A few years ago when my niece was still a colored belt, she was disrespectful with her mother when her mother asked her to do a chore. This was not a singular incident... just the climax. Mom chose to punish her by refusing to allow her to test for her next rank. My niece studies in one of those schools where you test every 3 months like clockwork. It's a real big deal there to miss a belt test since your friends will all outrank you at the next class.

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

Your sister is doing something very important. It's called parenting.

As a teacher, you have every right to be disappointed for the affected instructor. However, I think your disappointment is misplaced.

Rather than being disappointed at your sister for being a grownup with a backbone, perhaps you should be disapppointed with your niece that kept misbehaving and misbehaving and misbehaving and misbehaving and misbehaving. It certainly sounds like your sister didn't jump to conclusions the very first time and said "Did you talk back to me? That's it, no TKD for you!"

When you look at athletes, either collegiate or pro, do you ever see athletes that are so self-indulgent that their behaviour off-the-field gets them in to a helluvalot of trouble....even jail? However, they are a darn good ball player.

Now think about that from a martial arts perspective.

Does anyone want to have a studnent that is so self-indulgent that their behaviour off-the-mat gets them in to a helluvalot of trouble...even jail? However, the are darn good at pounding the bejeezus out of something/someone. Is this a recipe for success?

Think about it, and choose wisely. :asian:

 

[midnight star]

As a mum, i think this is valid punishment.
I did stop my daughter from training once as a puishment but regretted it as it cut down her exercise.Wrong move. But depending on the 'crime', i would use the 'no grading' thing for sure.Esp for something like beong very disrespectful, but only after numerous warnings. It would be a last resort.
These days i can't use this punishment as my daughter quit TKD!!

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

A few years ago when my niece was still a colored belt, she was disrespectful with her mother when her mother asked her to do a chore. This was not a singular incident... just the climax. Mom chose to punish her by refusing to allow her to test for her next rank. My niece studies in one of those schools where you test every 3 months like clockwork. It's a real big deal there to miss a belt test since your friends will all outrank you at the next class.

Anyway, let's discuss the punishment. Do you think it's appropriate for Mom who is a non-martial artist to use TKD advancement as a punishment for bad behavior at HOME? Furthermore, as a school owner, would you feel your domain has been intruded upon?

Since taekwondo is a 'do' art, yes, it is entirely appropriate. It would be even if it were not.

A parent's main goal is to raise a child to be responsible in life and to be able to conduct themselves in life. There are priorities. A rank belt is, honestly, not a priority. The little tyke is still going to class to punch and kick. They simply have to have that same old piece of cloth holding their dobok together.

Sometimes, our actions cause us to experience a delay for the things that we want. Not a bad idea for a child to learn that.

Daniel