Pull your opponent's guard down

[Kung Fu Wang]

Do you get hit often when throwing that punch?

I punch like that all the time for the following purposes:

- Counter against a straight punch.
- Set up a reverse headlock, or elbow side strike.
- Set up a groin kick.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

No matter how many times I see you throw and land that punch, I just can’t warm up to it. I’ve seen you do it (or very similar) in most of your videos. All I can think of is close in fast and punch the huge opening you’ve created.

This isn’t a knock on you nor your style. I really like everything else I see in your videos. That punch just goes against everything I’ve been taught and believe. Do you get hit often when throwing that punch?

I’m only asking because I’m pretty sure you know me well enough not to think I’m being disrespectful here.

I've been wondering if that opening is as big as it seems. From my standpoint, it seems like I could jam it (not the same kind of jamming as was attempted in that video), and that's where I'd be going automatically. But I'd need to see it from a first-person point of view to really understand what it looks like.

@JowGaWolf - put that on my wish list when we get a chance to play. Just don't hit me hard when it turns out I'm wrong, man.

 

[JR 137]

I've been wondering if that opening is as big as it seems. From my standpoint, it seems like I could jam it (not the same kind of jamming as was attempted in that video), and that's where I'd be going automatically. But I'd need to see it from a first-person point of view to really understand what it looks like.

@JowGaWolf - put that on my wish list when we get a chance to play. Just don't hit me hard when it turns out I'm wrong, man.

Yup. It’s easy to be Monday morning quarterback with this stuff. If I never saw him doing it in video and sparred with him, I wonder if it would catch me or if I’d pick it up. The only way to really get a sense of how much he opens himself up is to be standing in front of him at sparring distance or have someone with a video camera on their chest while sparring him. Even the camera wouldn’t be exact.

 

[JowGaWolf]

No matter how many times I see you throw and land that punch, I just can’t warm up to it. I’ve seen you do it (or very similar) in most of your videos. All I can think of is close in fast and punch the huge opening you’ve created.

This isn’t a knock on you nor your style. I really like everything else I see in your videos. That punch just goes against everything I’ve been taught and believe. Do you get hit often when throwing that punch?

I’m only asking because I’m pretty sure you know me well enough not to think I’m being disrespectful here.

You are describing the fear that every Jow Ga student has about that technique. It's a self made fear because in reality it's not as open as it looks. Even though the clip is about a second there's a lot that's going on. Here's just a few things going on.

• First punch - Rising backfist probes opponent's defense and set up distance. If I see it go through then I know I can land it later on. It also keeps my opponent at bay. I'm not throwing it to hit him. I'm throwing it to get information about my opponent. For example, how does he react to the punch, which hand reaches out first to defend against it. I'm analyzing on the fly because if he doesn't react the way that I need him to react then I have to abort the planned attack and reset.
• Because it's long fist I know I have to cover the openings that punch causes. I already know from the first punch that I'm out of range for his attacks. I also know that most people usually move backwards when I throw the first long fist so they are already going in the wrong direction for an attack. In addition because of how the long fist punch opens me up, my opponent will most likely throw a linear strike, which is what I'm looking for. So I can address it with my left hand. If the strike doesn't come then I attack the guard.
  
• Second Punch - The second punch looks like a haymaker but it isn't. The punch is more like a whipping punch because I can start slow and then speed up the strike as needed vs a fully committed haymaker. The second punch starts low like I'm about upper cut him. You can actually see my fist and arm change direction. This causes my opponent to commit to reacting to the upper cut then I change it up just in time to get a little whip out of the punch

The best way I can tell you how to make this punch work is to trust the technique. You'll get hit a couple of times with it, but once you get a good feel for it, you'll be able to piece it together in a variety of way.

Haymakers look like this. They have more of a back to front movement, and they are usually the First punch that is thrown.

The whipping type punch usually comes after a series of punches and it's one big circular movement. The circular movement means that the haymaker defense won't work. It looks like I'm wide open and when you are first learning the technique, it feels like you are about to get your head knocked off, but in reality that opportunity to strike that opening is not very big. You can hit where I'm open, but only if I hesitate or panic and bail out of the technique.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've been wondering if that opening is as big as it seems

Now you are thinking. And nope it's not. Its an illusion. It looks a lot different on the receiving end. You will see the opening but it's like you never really have enough time to capitalize on it before the opportunity is gone. The best way I can describe it, is that it's like driving in a car and trying to turn onto a road. You see an opening but you aren't quite sure if that opening is big enough for you to turn without getting hit. Before you know it, you end up saying "Crap, I could have made it." but by that time the opportunity has passed.

From my standpoint, it seems like I could jam it (not the same kind of jamming as was attempted in that video), and that's where I'd be going automatically.

I'll give you the opportunity to try and jam it. I don't throw these with any significant speed lol. Just promise that if you learn this punch then don't hit me hard with it either lol.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yup. It’s easy to be Monday morning quarterback with this stuff. If I never saw him doing it in video and sparred with him, I wonder if it would catch me or if I’d pick it up. The only way to really get a sense of how much he opens himself up is to be standing in front of him at sparring distance or have someone with a video camera on their chest while sparring him. Even the camera wouldn’t be exact.

Yeah, but it'd be much safer...for me, anyway.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If I never saw him doing it in video and sparred with him, I wonder if it would catch me or if I’d pick it up. The only way to really get a sense of how much he opens himself up is to be standing in front of him at sparring distance or have someone with a video camera on their chest while sparring him. Even the camera wouldn’t be exact.

My opinion is that it's not the punch that's the problem, but everything before it and after it
Here is a boxer (a real one), I don't know what he was focusing on that day so don't think of it as a win or lose things.

Video is at the end of this post.

The first clip: In the first clip I could see that I may be able to do a vertical downward punch on him because he was leaving his left side open. This punch almost works like a volleyball spike on someone's head, except it uses a circular movement. The big circular movement causes the fist to travel out of the field of vision. Normally I would step into the punch, but this was my first time and I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to pull enough power off the punch. I also didn't know if he would move into the punch by raising his stance so I just played it safe. Out of all the "Gotcha's" these are the ones that I like the most where your opponent acknowledges that he could have been eating leather. The loud noise that you hear was a backfist hitting my arm. When he came in, I pulled my arm back which opened me up, but also got his attention, the "Hey he's open" thinking is going on. While he's thinking that, my punch is on the way.

Second Clip:
My plan was to keep him occupied to where he couldn't throw punch. This means that I have to attack not only the body but also his guard. Attack the guard buys time. @0:31 you can see me move his guard with one my long fist punches. I followed up with the second punch because my first attack on his guard was not powerful enough to turn his body. It was a poorly place strike, all he had to do was bend his arm to escape the force of the strike. @37 you see the punch coming in. Starts low and then rises, but take note of how my arm is turned. From the video I can only assume that I was still out of range because you can see my left foot turn in preparation for a kick

@52 I pull his guard out of the way and lift his punch.. Now things are looking really bad for me. However. I'm lifting his arm (similar concept to the rising block in tkd and karate). The picture looks really bad, but what you don't see in the picture is that my second punch is already on it's way.

I'm wide open again. Remember what I said about giving a person just enough of an opening to think " Hey he's open".
You can actually see where my opponent is looking.

Here you can still see that my opponent is still thinking if he's got enough time to attack the opening. While he's thinking about that, You can see the blur in my arm. Punch is already on it's way. More blur = more movement. He doesn't see it coming, he's experiencing tunnel vision because he thinks he's got an opportunity.

I pulled the punch on this one so it wouldn't land. He still doesn't see the punch

He know's it's there, and braces for impact. I don't hit him with it, but his brain thinks he's about to get hit, which is why his eyes are closed. I'm well pas the punch at this time. and you can see my position change as I flow into a kick

I pulled the kick as well. This would have been a round house to the ribs but I spared him. I was happy enough to be able to see the opportunity and still be able to take advantage of it.

Here's the video

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Now you are thinking. And nope it's not. Its an illusion. It looks a lot different on the receiving end. You will see the opening but it's like you never really have enough time to capitalize on it before the opportunity is gone. The best way I can describe it, is that it's like driving in a car and trying to turn onto a road. You see an opening but you aren't quite sure if that opening is big enough for you to turn without getting hit. Before you know it, you end up saying "Crap, I could have made it." but by that time the opportunity has passed.

I'll give you the opportunity to try and jam it. I don't throw these with any significant speed lol. Just promise that if you learn this punch then don't hit me hard with it either lol.

Deal.

 

[Martial D]

When your opponent's arm is in your striking path, since you know your fist will not be able to reach to his face, your punching power will be wasted. You want to make your arm to contact his arm and then pull his arm away from his head. Of course you can go around his arm. But his arm can move and interrupt your punch again.

Do you use this strategy? Your thought?

This is my bread and butter. Parrying inwards and throwing a straight strike at the same time is pretty effective as long as you don't go to the well too often, because a well timed counter hook to that can be nasty.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

This is my bread and butter. Parrying inwards and throwing a straight strike at the same time is pretty effective as long as you don't go to the well too often, because a well timed counter hook to that can be nasty.

I like to take advantage on my opponent's counter hook punch. I use inward parry, my opponent's arm borrow my force, and spin back with a hook to my head. That will be the best chance for me to wrap his upper arm if I reverse my inward parry to upward wrap.

When your opponent tries to take advantage on you, you then try to take advantage on him. That make MA has so much fun.

 

[Martial D]

I like to take advantage on my opponent's counter hook punch. I use inward parry, my opponent's arm borrow my force, and spin back with a hook to my head. That will be the best chance for me to wrap his upper arm if I reverse my inward parry to upward wrap.

When your opponent tries to take advantage on you, you then try to take advantage on him. That make MA has so much fun.

I personally try to stay away from inside out parries because that leaves my face in line for his other hand, but I get what you are saying. There are lots of options if you can wrap the arm.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I personally try to stay away from inside out parries because that leaves my face in line for his other hand, but I get what you are saying. There are lots of options if you can wrap the arm.

That's why when I use downward parry on my opponent's left arm, I'll use upward comb hair to deal with his other arm.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's why when I use downward parry on my opponent's left arm, I'll use upward comb hair to deal with his other arm.

making a note: Grow spikes on my neck so Kung Fu Wang won't put me in a head lock lol

 

[Gerry Seymour]

making a note: Grow spikes on my neck so Kung Fu Wang won't put me in a head lock lol

Just wear one of those spiky dog collars. Bonus: also eliminates the rear naked choke!

 

[JowGaWolf]

Just wear one of those spiky dog collars. Bonus: also eliminates the rear naked choke!

Anti choke defense

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Head (temple) squeeze is worse than jaw squeeze which is worse than neck squeeze.

neck squeeze < jaw squeeze < head (temple) squeeze

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Head (temple) squeeze is worse than jaw squeeze which is worse than neck squeeze.

neck squeeze < jaw squeeze < head (temple) squeeze

I have to disagree pretty strongly with that.

A properly applied neck squeeze can be a choke which will produce unconsciousness in 10 seconds and permanent brain damage or death within a couple of minutes. This doesn’t even require a lot of strength.

A very well done jaw squeeze can potentially dislocate the jaw.

A temple squeeze can produce ... discomfort? The only way you could inflict actual damage is if you could somehow crush the skull. The human skull is structurally pretty darn solid. I haven’t seen any evidence that human strength is sufficient to crush the skull of a healthy adult human by squeezing without the aid of tools. Perhaps a gorilla could do it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

A properly applied neck squeeze can be a choke which will produce unconsciousness in 10 seconds and permanent brain damage or death within a couple of minutes. This doesn’t even require a lot of strength.

"Is worse" is not clear. I should say:

Head (temple) squeeze can cause more pain than jaw squeeze which can cause more pain than neck squeeze.

A temple squeeze can produce ... discomfort? The only way you could inflict actual damage is if you could somehow crush the skull. The human skull is structurally pretty darn solid. I haven’t seen any evidence that human strength is sufficient to crush the skull of a healthy adult human by squeezing without the aid of tools. Perhaps a gorilla could do it.

In the following clip, his skull has not been crushed yet. But his pain has caused him to give up (start to talk). IMO, the neck choke can only make him to pass out. It won't make him start to talk.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Is worse" is not clear. I should say:

Head (temple) squeeze can cause more pain than jaw squeeze which can cause more pain than neck squeeze.



In the following clip, his skull has not been crushed yet. But his pain has caused him to give up (start to talk). IMO, the neck choke can only make him to pass out. It won't make him start to talk.

That's using tools (not human grip). And it's a movie.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

"Is worse" is not clear. I should say:

Head (temple) squeeze can cause more pain than jaw squeeze which can cause more pain than neck squeeze.



In the following clip, his skull has not been crushed yet. But his pain has caused him to give up (start to talk). IMO, the neck choke can only make him to pass out. It won't make him start to talk.

I don’t focus on inflicting pain. It’s not consistently reliable in a fight. I’m looking to cause structural damage or unconsciousness.