Primary and Supplementary

[muayThaiPerson]

Street Combat

On one of my previous threads, Many of you said your hands were your primary weapons. For most if not all of us, it is. Its our best defense since it provides protection for the opponents main target, ie the upper body. So I was thinking, boxing is the number 1 style utilizing your hands, and in street combat, hands are most used. Therefore, it is the best street defense style.

Legs are your Secondary weapons. No one comes out kicking first in a street combat. Its much slower than punching and reqiures more effort. If you're familiar with Kro Krop, Igor Vovchanchin, or Ernesto Hoost, you'll notice that they throw their kicks after they started it off with a punch.

Ive witnessed and have been in many fights. One fight I saw was between a wrestler from my school and some guy. Although the wrestler couldnt stike, he had great grappling skills, he broke the other guys arm. Another one was between a 1st deg. black Lyoushin Karate(one of my good freinds), and some s*** takler. My freind got his nose broken after starting off with a kick. This is the last one.... My Muay Thai friend started off trying to high kick someone, he was stupid, he slipped and fell. Then got kicked when he was down.

Where am I getting at?

for an MAist, unless youre a really good grappler or have good upper body work, then you need some cross training. Agree??

 

[Greggers69]

I'd hafta agree with you. Befor starting kenpo I used to wrestle in Highschool. I was not very good but in street fighting it came usefull a time or two. And then I worked out with a boxing buddy of mine for about a year or two just to learn how to use my hands more effiently. Now i am studying kenpo. But to be a well rounded fighter you need to know at least the basics just to know what may happen to you on the streets. :asian:

 

[cali_tkdbruin]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
Street Combat

for an MAist, unless youre a really good grappler or have good upper body work, then you need some cross training. Agree??

Yes, you have my vote. Cross-training to improve your hand techniques is always a good thing... :asian:

 

[ace]

Yep.

 

[chufeng]

Kind of hard for me to answer...
I grew up with boxers in the family...frequently sparred with some of the "tough guys" at the gym...
But, after six months of training in YiLi, my brothers (both of them were regional champs for about ten years in silver gloves and golden gloves) couldn't touch me...
Maybe, because I already knew their game, I could easily defeat them...or maybe the boxing I learned was lacking and I found something better...I don't really know.


:asian:
chufeng

 

[muayThaiPerson]

Sparring is completely different form street combat. Injuries are much more likely, the enviornment varies, and the fighting is not controlled. ie. its all out and theres no retractions or any type of waiting for openings

 

[chufeng]

Make up your mind...
First you ask about whether boxing is a necessary adjunct to training and then you say that sparring is irrelevant...

My brother F**ked up many a street fighter in his day using his boxing skills...was arrested for using brass knuckles once...except he didn't have any...he was just that kind of bad ***...

No, I know the deal on the street...my brothers won't mess with me because I've warned them about surprising me and they both have tested me on that issue...to their dismay...

Can I say that what I know will work everytime on the street?

Hell No...and nobody here could ever make that claim...

You do what you must...sometimes you live, sometimes not.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[chufeng]

Oh, and I worked on defense against MuayThai thigh kick today...

Use of changing distance may work if your timing is VERY good...mine was only 50%...

So I tried some other strategies...the best was a punch to the point just above the knee on the attacking leg AS I was moving lateral to the attack...

Will this work every time?

I doubt it...

I still think the distance thing holds the best promise, but I need to work on it more...bruised the heck out of my hip...even though I avoided the shin, the knee got me.

Thanks for this additiotnal aspect to explore...(I think it was you who brought this up in another thread...if not, sorry)

:asian:
chufeng

 

[MartialArtist]

muaythaiperson, you are generalizing things and making things less complicated than they really are.

Boxing is the #1 style because the hands are the first line of defense... What kind of logic is that? Really. Even folkstyle collegiate wrestling uses the hands a lot more than one thinks. I will make a generalization, and see how it sounds to you. Boxing is not good for self-defense because people don't hit below the belt, and it's more technical than aggressive... Doesn't sound right, but you're doing the same thing.

Boxing is great, but muay thai or hapkido or any other art (not endorsed by Ashida Kim and the like) is just as effective on the street. On the street, anything goes. You can do anything you pretty much want. You can't make generalizations such as "boxing is great because it's the best with the hands." Because what happens when the guy stops fighting at a boxer's range (arm length) and starts in-fighting as in pressure-type grappling, or starts fighting from the outside? What if a guy charges you too fast? Amateur boxers don't know what to do, as they're unprepared. Experienced boxers will just dodge it using footwork, or be creative and knee the guy in the face. Not too many amateur boxers can execute a throw from the clinch position, but that is not the art's fault, because classic boxing does include certain techniques like that, but the sport-oriented version, I'm not too sure. What if a person attacks from the outside? Then you're screwed. However, that's where the cross-training idea comes into play.

BUT, and I do say BUT, there are times when cross-training is not really required. You don't need to go enroll in over 10 schools and learn a few techniques in a year or two at the most. That's not how it goes, and you will never understand its true potential. Cross-training is A MUST if you want to be somewhat effective in combat... If you're training in sport-oriented versions. For instance, boxing at West Point is sport-oriented, but as you get more advanced, you start learning other things that aren't portrayed in "sport boxing". Wrestling is the same way. Any martial art is the same way. If you start learning the full combat versions, then cross-training, although suggested after you get a good base (4 years or so), is not required... You can adapt in other ways.

I do agree the hands are most used. However, I absolutely do not agree with your logic on saying, "since the hands are most used, boxing must be #1" because there is no #1. And, please do not talk about the art of fighting after watching some school yard brawls, which are ***** in comparison to real street fights. The school yard brawls consist of inexperienced kids. A lot of the time, are driven by hormones or ego-type behavior. I was the same way, I was too proud. If someone started talking, I'd fight them. If someone challenged me, I took it. But I was inexperienced, and although I won every fight, I was inexperienced. Same with all people that are involved in school yard fights. Sure, they may be "good" skillwise, but they lack the wisdom, the experience, the common sense, and not enough time to be "great". Mike Tyson was considered great at a young age, but yu have to look at his maturity at that age (boxing and fighting mentality wise, not necessarily morally). I mean, no experienced fighter, regardless of style, will not throw a high kick or a kick first unless they

1) Knew the opponent's capabilities/traits as in the opponent was a novice
2) Had perfect timing which is rare
3) The opponent got faked/juked/owned/whatever people call it these days

 

[MartialArtist]

But then again muaythaiperson, I could've read your post wrong

 

[DAC..florida]

Boxing, sparring and street fighting are all differant animals in my opinion.




originally posted by cheufeng
My brother F**ked up many a street fighter in his day using his boxing skills...was arrested for using brass knuckles once...except he didn't have any...he was just that kind of bad ***...

I have to agree, I had to fight a boxer in a street fight and made the mistake of trying to go blow for blow with him, I quickly realized that this was a mistake and took him to the ground.





Action is always faster than reaction!

 

[muayThaiPerson]

I think I came about this in the wrong way. Boxing is the most effective offensive hand striking style. I didnt mean to say that boxing is better than anything else. My mistake. Ofcourse styles like Akido are effective but they are mainly defense oriented and their hadn striking techniuqes dont match up to boxings. In a street combat situation, theres no way you can just defend. Its impossible to defend every strike. Offense is neccesary, wether youre a grappler or striker. But offense is started off by using your hands first then following up with a kick or a shoot or watever.

What Im saying about boxing is that it is good for offense. In the case that someone comes at you, by rush or watever, you can defend with a push kick or a sukui nage or anything that comes to your mind.

Boxing is a good supplement to Martial Arts.

 

[MartialArtist]

Originally posted by muayThaiPerson
I think I came about this in the wrong way. Boxing is the most effective offensive hand striking style. I didnt mean to say that boxing is better than anything else. My mistake. Ofcourse styles like Akido are effective but they are mainly defense oriented and their hadn striking techniuqes dont match up to boxings. In a street combat situation, theres no way you can just defend. Its impossible to defend every strike. Offense is neccesary, wether youre a grappler or striker. But offense is started off by using your hands first then following up with a kick or a shoot or watever.

What Im saying about boxing is that it is good for offense. In the case that someone comes at you, by rush or watever, you can defend with a push kick or a sukui nage or anything that comes to your mind.

Boxing is a good supplement to Martial Arts.

There, I agree with you. Boxing is a great supplement.

Boxing is the best with the hands because that is all it focuses on. But look at wing chun, they have a lot of different variations of punches that boxers find uses for, and a lot of defensive/offensive techniques.

But just because you're the best with the hands, doesn't mean you'll come up on top. A great boxer doesn't mean he'll be the best street fighter.

A lot of arts incorporate "boxing". Almost all combative arts include most movements found in "boxing." I use quotations because "boxing" can be translated into so many languages, and every combat art includes some boxing. The boxing we know of today, surprisingly, with slipping, weaving, rolling, jabbing, and other techniques is found almost everywhere. What the main difference in boxing today is the strategy, which is throw a combo at the right moment, get back, and do it again.

 

[GouRonin]

 

[J-kid]

Boxing is a great striking art for the street.

 

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by Judo-kid
Boxing is a great striking art for the street.

So's traditional martial arts training, especially the kind that uses forms for the primary method of study... Right Judo-kid?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gambarimasu.
:asian: