Free training! but is it worth it?

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pittjunky

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I recently answered and add that read, "Karate instructors wanted, no experience necessary we will train." Now, the deal is that during your 800 hours of training they don't pay you anything because you are getting trained for free. But I have only been there for a month and a half, and we are to go monday through friday from 6:00 to 10:00. We had to by one of their gees, but I expected that. What I was needing to know concerns the testing fees when we go for the next belt. The stile they are teaching us is Chinese Kenpo, he is charging us $115.00 per test. I've done as much research as I can to figure out why he charges what he does for testing. The belts cost about $5.00 to maybe $10.00, and we are also supposed to get a registered certificate but I've been waiting a couple of weeks and still haven't received mine.

Question #1) What does a certificate cost, and besides the belt what would he possibly need the rest of it for besides his wallet?

Question #2) Can I use the belt certificates at other Kenpo schools, and how can I tell if it is a legitimate certificate.

Question #3) After the 800 hours will I be able to go somewhere els? What are the rules and regulations that govern that?

I would really appreciate any help you could give me. I'm a serious student who isn't worried about getting belts, I care about results. I want the skills not just the rank. I'm already a purple belt and it's only been a couple of months.

Arigato and Thank you,

J.T.
 
Originally posted by pittjunky
I recently answered and add that read, "Karate instructors wanted, no experience necessary we will train." Now, the deal is that during your 800 hours of training they don't pay you anything because you are getting trained for free. But I have only been there for a month and a half, and we are to go monday through friday from 6:00 to 10:00. We had to by one of their gees, but I expected that. What I was needing to know concerns the testing fees when we go for the next belt. The stile they are teaching us is Chinese Kenpo, he is charging us $115.00 per test. I've done as much research as I can to figure out why he charges what he does for testing. The belts cost about $5.00 to maybe $10.00, and we are also supposed to get a registered certificate but I've been waiting a couple of weeks and still haven't received mine.

Question #1) What does a certificate cost, and besides the belt what would he possibly need the rest of it for besides his wallet?

Question #2) Can I use the belt certificates at other Kenpo schools, and how can I tell if it is a legitimate certificate.

Question #3) After the 800 hours will I be able to go somewhere els? What are the rules and regulations that govern that?

I would really appreciate any help you could give me. I'm a serious student who isn't worried about getting belts, I care about results. I want the skills not just the rank. I'm already a purple belt and it's only been a couple of months.

Arigato and Thank you,

J.T.


This is definitely one you should PM the GoldenDragon7 about.

I'll alert him to this post, to get him to reply in here.
 
I am by no means an expert. But that training seems to cost a lot of money for being FREE.

I usualy assosiate the word free = $0

not $115 per test.


so when ever I am in a posision that I must spend money for some FREE, its clear that I was lied too.

what person likes being lied too?
 
I know nothing about kenpo, but I can multiply and divide. 4 hours a day x 5 days per week = 20 hours per week. 800 hours divided by 20 = 40 weeks. So you will be an instructor in 40 weeks. Assistant Instructor I could believe. Chief Instructor, I would question. $115/belt. How many tests until you are an instructor, 8? 10? If it is 10 you are paying $1150.00 for 40 weeks of training Figure 40 weeks equal 5 months and you are paying $143.75 per month to train. You and only you can decide if it is worth it. Other things to consider. As an instructor, are you working for yourself, or for your teacher. If for your teacher, what are you being paid to teach, or are you paying him. There have been scams in the past where teachers use their students as indentured servants to enrich the teachers. The students sign contracts that essentially make them the slave of the teacher. Beware. Use your common sense and trust your judgement. If you need to talk to someone, talk to a trusted friend, parent , clergy or coach or teacher NOT affiliated with the school for tyheir opinion.

Peace
Dennis
 
fREE 1967 Chevy Conv. Just Buy the custom wheels and we'll give you the car for free..........

Sounds Like the same deal to me.

Is the training your getting solid? Do you like and feel that you can use the techniques?
If your answer is yes, than your getting your monies worth.
Charging $115 for belt testing is hs way of getting you to actually pay for the training.

As far as the cerification goes. Check if it's just going to be from this guy and his school or is there an Organization sanctioning the training. From what I know about Kenpo, (you can go to the Kenpo section here for more info) there are so many styles and governing bodies that even the die hard kenpo guys are disgusted with what's happening to their art.

You say your not concerned with ranking, but if you wish to teach and set up your own school, the general public can only evaluate what they can see. What they see is that certificate on the wall that say's your have been officially trained and they see the belt that validates that certificate or visa versa. So ranking is a necessary evil if we wish to venture into the public mainstream.

Now will his certificate of training be accepted? To the general public I would have to say yes, they don't/would'nt know any better. If you should want the acceptance of your peers, I would suggest to seek the input from the kenpo community.

Hope I was of some assistance to your questions.

Just remember the old saying; " If it looks like s**t and it smell like s**t and it tastes like s**t, then it ain't chicken soup" :rofl:
 
Regardless of the $115 per test, I think a more appropriate question is "do you really think that after 40 weeks/5 months of training you will know the material well enough to instruct it?"

Being in the military, we routinely send soldiers off to classes and training for a week, two weeks, or even several months at a time. When they come back, we expect them to be experts in that particular area of study. The sad truth is that most come back having been able to pass the tests during training, but retaining only a small fraction of what they were taught. That's just how people learn.

So even though you are supposed to be training 20 hours a week for 5 months, I really question how much of it you will internalize to a point where you would be an effective instructor.

I've been working on learning a new form for about 2 months now. I learned it in about 3 weeks (that is Saturdays only for about 3 hours or so each Saturday), and while I can perform it and likely teach the movements to someone, I am still working to figure out what is going on inside the form. That will probably take me quite a while to decipher it completely to the point that I would be able to teach a junior student all the applications contained inside it. And this is after 16 years of training and practice.

Good luck. I hope it works out for you.

Gambarimasu.
:asian: :tank: :asian:
 
My advice would be to find out exactly what organization your instructor is sanctioned by and then do some research. Look on the net, magazines, they probably have some sort of website, or at least an address you can mail them and find out if this guy is on the level. It is even possible that they may have a video correspondence program that you, yes you, can do on your own. If his organization is called for example JOHN DO KENPO ORGANIZATION, and his name is JOHN DOE, and he is teaching a home made or self created system of Chinese kenpo, then you're rank will probably not be recognized by most other kenpo practitioners.

As far as weather you'd be able to go elsewhere after you finish your "free" training, and many of your other questions, they'd be best asked to your instructor.

Incidentally, a certificate costs very little. A piece of paper, some ink, a stamp or two, very easy to make. Some certificates are worth far more then they cost to print, while others are worth far less then the cost of printing them.

Good Luck,
Gary Catherman
 
Sounds to me as if he's still charging you to come to class with the $115 test fee. Most test fees for under brown are usually $25-$40 after about 6 months of training. What he's doing selling you a belt for the monthly fee. I liked the custom wheels analogy. Get away from the studio fast and enroll in a normal get what you pay for studio. I gotta admit, it's a good business strategy, the old Ferengi rule of Aqusition is to never let a fool keep his money.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde
 
Originally posted by ProfessorKenpo
Sounds to me as if he's still charging you to come to class with the $115 test fee. Most test fees for under brown are usually $25-$40 after about 6 months of training. What he's doing selling you a belt for the monthly fee. I liked the custom wheels analogy. Get away from the studio fast and enroll in a normal get what you pay for studio. I gotta admit, it's a good business strategy, the old Ferengi rule of Aqusition is to never let a fool keep his money.

Have a great Kenpo day

Clyde

In the Journey, Trejo talks about something like this.
I'm betting you'd know the story in more detail?
 
Originally posted by pittjunky
I recently answered and add that read, "Karate instructors wanted, no experience necessary we will train."
J.T.

Sounds simple enough....... that add has been running since 1970 in Phoenix by various individuals.

Originally posted by pittjunky
Now, the deal is that during your 800 hours of training they don't pay you anything because you are getting trained for free.
J.T.

Why "should" they pay YOU anything ....... you are training or learning at their studio. Did they hire you to teach? Is this a training for later hire program?

Originally posted by pittjunky
But I have only been there for a month and a half (I'm already a purple belt and it's only been a couple of months), and we are to go Monday through Friday from 6:00 to 10:00.
J.T.

You didn't designate times clearly ...... 6 am to 10 pm? (16 hours a day) "or" 6 pm to 10 pm (4 hours a day)?

YOU'RE A PURPLE BELT AFTER 1 1/2 MONTHS OR 2 MONTHS!!!?
At normal Kenpo studios that takes usually 4 to 6 months per belt.
How does the belt system go.....?
Is it.... Yellow, Orange, Purple, Blue, Green, 3rd Brown, 2nd Brown, 1st Brown, 1st Black?

Originally posted by pittjunky
We had to by one of their gees, but I expected that.
J.T.

How much was that?

Originally posted by pittjunky
What I was needing to know concerns the testing fees when we go for the next belt. The stile they are teaching us is Chinese Kenpo, he is charging us $115.00 per test.
J.T.

Ok, everyone has their own test fee schedule...... Most Kenpo Studios charge anywhere from ....... -0- to $ 50.00 for lower belt tests, Brown tests are typically from $25.00 to 100.00 and Black Belt Testing runs anywhere from $75.00 to $150.00 per test depending on rank of belt.... some high ranking belts may be higher.

Originally posted by pittjunky
I've done as much research as I can to figure out why he charges what he does for testing. The belts cost about $5.00 to maybe $10.00, and we are also supposed to get a registered certificate but I've been waiting a couple of weeks and still haven't received mine.
J.T.

What Association is it? Who is sanctioning it? What is the name of the Person in charge of the Association, and where and who did he/she study with?

Originally posted by pittjunky
Question #1) What does a certificate cost, and besides the belt what would he possibly need the rest of it for besides his wallet?
J.T.

That is a good question.

Originally posted by pittjunky
Question #2) Can I use the belt certificates at other Kenpo schools, and how can I tell if it is a legitimate certificate.
J.T.

Depending on the issuing Association, and just WHAT you want to use them for.

Originally posted by pittjunky
Question #3) After the 800 hours will I be able to go somewhere else? What are the rules and regulations that govern that?
J.T.

After 2000 hours you can always go anywhere else. But whether you have a legitimate ranking at another Kenpo studio is another issue.

Originally posted by pittjunky
Arigato and Thank you,
J.T.

You are certainly welcome.
:asian:
 
the gee was $67.00, the sensei is Berry Bernstien sr., the times are 6:00pm to 10:00pm m-f, and the name of the school is Phoenix House of Karate. Who is the governing body or assosiation that is in charge of keeping an eye on Karate dojos. Is there someone that he is acountable to?
 
Originally posted by pittjunky
the gee was $67.00, the sensei is Berry Bernstien sr., the times are 6:00pm to 10:00pm m-f, and the name of the school is Phoenix House of Karate. Who is the governing body or assosiation that is in charge of keeping an eye on Karate dojos. Is there someone that he is acountable to?

I thought so. There is no governing body in charge of his studio that I know of........ but you will have to ask him. Not accountable to anyone but himself that I know of.

Kimona Grab, Inward Defense, Locking the arm, Striking Asp, Eagle Beak, Japanese Hand, any sound familiar? These are all Tracy Techniques that he teaches.

:asian:
 
Yep they all are familure I've been tought most of those already. So do you have any opinion on his school and or quality of his course, or him for that matter? He said he's head or chairman or something of the arizona kickbocking assosiation but I can't find any proof of it online yet. Like I said I am a serious about learning so I want to learn the right way. The color of my belt means nothing if I get my butt kicked in the ring or worse the street.

Arigato and Thank You.
 
oh one more thing, what do you mean by tracy techniques?
 
He's not teaching Chinese Kenpo... he's teaching a variation of Parker Kenpo called Tracy Kenpo.

as far as I know the story, the Tracy Brothers studied with Ed Parker, then broke off, used what he taught them to begin another style that remains closely related to Parker kenpo.

It concerns me that your instructor is teaching you techniques but not teaching you anything about the origin of your art. I've studied a couple of styles (went on a bit of a hunt until I found one that suited me) and what I always heard from the instructors was "This is American Kenpo, it was created by Ed Parker" or "This is Tae Kwon Do, it comes from Korea" etc...

I don't know your instructor's side of the story, but from what you're telling me, were I you, I would point my martial arts journey down a different path.

:asian:
Nightingale
 
Orig. posted by nightingale8472
He's not teaching Chinese Kenpo... he's teaching a variation of Parker Kenpo called Tracy Kenpo.:asian: Nightingale

Then explain to me just what is "Chinese Kenpo" Nightingale?

:mad:
 
Originally posted by pittjunky
So do you have any opinion on his school and or quality of his course, or him for that matter? He said he's head or chairman or something of the arizona kickbocking assosiation but I can't find any proof of it online yet. Arigato and Thank You.

Yes, I have known him and his son (Barry Jr., who sometimes runs the place) for many years.

My best comment is "No comment". Last I heard he was involved somhow in the Arizona State Boxing Commission which regulates boxing and some martial art events and ufc matches in the state. Other than that, I don't know, I havn't had any recent contact with him other than I know well who he is and how he operates.

:asian:
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7
I thought so. There is no governing body in charge of his studio that I know of........ but you will have to ask him. Not accountable to anyone but himself that I know of.

Kimona Grab, Inward Defense, Locking the arm, Striking Asp, Eagle Beak, Japanese Hand, any sound familiar? These are all Tracy Techniques that he teaches.

:asian:

In that case, the certification and the belt are recognized by exactly NO ONE! :D
 
Originally posted by Johnathan Napalm
In that case, the certification and the belt are recognized by exactly NO ONE! :D

Not true, It WOULD be recognized by the owner of the studio that he gets it from!

:asian:
 
Originally posted by Goldendragon7
Not true, It WOULD be recognized by the owner of the studio that he gets it from!

:asian:

lol, yeah. I am sure that would be ALL WORTHY then..... :D
 

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