Pressure points

[Eazy]

Great i checked it out, i'll do that.
Ive wanted to do an Ebook for some time and this has been a barrier.

 

[Josh Oakley]

First, I don't believe in no-touch knockouts. I also don't think you can do that much convincing in the short amount of time an attack happens. Maybe if you did a Mindfreak thing like Chris Angel, or whatever that show was called. That might work, because you have time to work the crowd and get them into the idea. Other than that, I wouldn't count on it in a self-defense situation. Also, Dillman goes to great lengths at the end of the interview to explain why it may not have worked saying things about the placement of the tongue in the mouth or the toes on the ground. Why would you want to rely on something that is so finicky?

This is why you don't see no-touch in actual combat. Only in demonstrations. And even then, it works because people are gullible.

 

[rlp271]

This is why you don't see no-touch in actual combat. Only in demonstrations. And even then, it works because people are gullible.

Oh yeah, I know. That's why I said, I seriously don't believe in them in the least. I posted the Dillman video and the video of the kiai master getting KO'd. That's actually why sites like bullshido exist. We can all say what we want about their general site, where there's a lot of sarcasm and swearing at each other, but their Martial Arts BS section is great. They bust frauds. Which is something everyone who got proper training wants to do.

I just said why rely on something so finicky as a, "Why even bother with it?" kind of statement.

 

[BloodMoney]

Ive been training pressure point attacks for years.

Wanna know which secret techniques I use?

- Punch to the throat/adams apple

- Kick to the groin

- Palm to the nose

Ta-da!

Good thing all those "pressure points" are along the center line of a human body eh? Makes all those centerline attacks in Chun just that bit more handy

No 5 Point Palm Exploding Heart technique. Just hitting people where it hurts. No single finger jabs or techniques requiring ridiculous levels of precison, just a good old punch on the nose does the job quite well I can assure you!

 

[Bruno@MT]

This is why you don't see no-touch in actual combat. Only in demonstrations. And even then, it works because people are gullible.

Actual combat, no, not to my knowledge.
But you don't need to be especially gullible for things like that to work.
Search youtube for 'Derren brown'. He can play all sorts of tricks with the human mind that defy reason. One of them is performing a no-touch knockout on a martial artist who doesn't even know him or know what is going to happen.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Oh yeah, I know. That's why I said, I seriously don't believe in them in the least. I posted the Dillman video and the video of the kiai master getting KO'd. That's actually why sites like bullshido exist. We can all say what we want about their general site, where there's a lot of sarcasm and swearing at each other, but their Martial Arts BS section is great. They bust frauds. Which is something everyone who got proper training wants to do.

I just said why rely on something so finicky as a, "Why even bother with it?" kind of statement.

problem is they're not incredibly great fact-checkers.

 

[K-man]

It seems there are two types of martial artists on this forum. Those who train using vital points and those that think vital points don't have practical application if indeed they exist at all.
Personally, I teach vital points. To my mind, if I'm going to strike someone and I see an opening, I am going to strike that area as hard as I can. If there is a vital point in that target area I will try to hit it. If I succeed, great. If I fail my strike is still as effective as someone who is just hitting blindly.
Now back to the list of vids in the OP. Amongst those were a couple of Russell Stutely's tapes that were given a bit of a bath. I have a lot of time for RS and have a number of his DVDs. One of those vids was of Russell's BAR system and believe me it is not only easy to use and logical ... it also works like a treat. I was disappointed that they were dismissed as ineffective. So, my suggestion is, don't put things down for the sake of bagging vital point strikes. Sure there are some charletans out there (eg Kiai Master!), but not all are bad.
Now as to the no touch KO. I've never seen it so I can't make a judgement. If there are people on the forum who have experienced a no touch ko, or an attempt at one, I'd like to here from them. If, like me, you have had that opportunity then how can you say it's BS or not? I've seen many people put down to the floor without being touched, NOT ko'd, although it wasn't effective against me.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant but it annoys me when people make strong comments in areas of which they have no knowledge or understanding. :asian:

 

[fighter_x]

I think there are two sides to that coin when it comes to vital points. There are of course vital points, such as those taught in atemi waza in various Karate systems, and then there are those points along meridians taught from Chinese based systems. I don't have the authority, or quite frankly, the knowledge to debate intelligently on the validity of the Chinese pressure points. On the other side of the coin, it is plain to see that there are quite a few "vital areas" that make sense to strike over other areas. A minor study in anatomy will prove that, and it doesn't require a lot of memory to strike them as needed.

When these questions arise at my school, I have always used this little saying, and mind you its strictly my opinion:

"If you apply enough pressure anywhere, they'll get the point".

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1.03.01

 

[BloodMoney]

In hundreds of stories, posts, conversations with Security/military/LEO, conversations with students, countless news stories, countless security jobs, training etc I have never seen or even heard of someone using a pressure point effectively in self defense. Ever. Above the usual I should say (ie: punching someones nose or kicking them in the groin).

Im not saying they dont exist. Of course they do (look at acupuncture etc) I just question their effectiveness in the heat of combat thats all.

Any pressure point that isnt obvious and easy to target with a flurry of strikes just isnt that practical imo. And whats worse ive seen tough guys take carefully measured and accurate strikes to many of these areas in training and without a flinch, they just dont work on everyone (though theoretically they should).

The nose, throat, shins, jaw, groin, base of the neck etc, excellent pressure points that are very easy to strike. Pinching people under their arms, tweaking wrists etc...try that on a big guy whos really intent on messing you up (let alone a trained martial artist or MMA figher) and see what happens. It might work, maybe 1 or 2 times out of 5 even, but might just isnt good enough for me personally.

"If you apply enough pressure anywhere, they'll get the point".

+1

 

[K-man]

Any pressure point that isnt obvious and easy to target with a flurry of strikes just isnt that practical imo. And whats worse ive seen tough guys take carefully measured and accurate strikes to many of these areas in training and without a flinch, they just dont work on everyone (though theoretically they should).

The nose, throat, shins, jaw, groin, base of the neck etc, excellent pressure points that are very easy to strike. Pinching people under their arms, tweaking wrists etc...try that on a big guy whos really intent on messing you up (let alone a trained martial artist or MMA figher) and see what happens. It might work, maybe 1 or 2 times out of 5 even, but might just isnt good enough for me personally.

You are quite right. That's why I prefer to call them 'vital points' more than 'pressure points'. There are a number of points on the head that are useful in controlling someone when you don't want to hit them.
Referring back to the Russell Stutely vids in the OP. His BAR tactic is based on the flinch response followed by heavy hand strike to the temples. From experience, that puts an attacker down real quick. The follow up strikes would not normally be required. In his other vid, the kick to the inside of the thigh slows someone down very effectively. :asian:

 

[BloodMoney]

That's why I prefer to call them 'vital points' more than 'pressure points'.

Nice, yeah were the same really, good way to put it.

 

[Eazy]

Hi all Im back. http://www.youtube.com/user/sakenpo
This channel has alot of good info on wrist locks pressure points. Jim Brassard is a good instructor and is very clear with instruction. I'll just give his main channel here.

 

[Eazy]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Chinese_meridians.JPG
This is the best pressure point chart i could find im sure you will agree. if you go to this link the the chart will be there place your cursor over it and click to enlearge. please read the detail below the chart.
I found the outer shoulder area has two interesting pressure points for striking they seem to be a good target as if hit hard enough and miss the points you may well dislocate the shoulder of an attacker. Feeling around for the points on my own shoulder i found them quick enough and also very painfull the two points being close together make them a broard target.

 

[Eazy]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Chinese_meridians.JPG
This is the best pressure point chart i could find im sure you will agree. if you go to this link the the chart will be there place your cursor over it and click to enlearge. please read the detail below the chart.
I found the outer shoulder area has two interesting pressure points for striking they seem to be a good target as if hit hard enough and miss the points you may well dislocate the shoulder of an attacker. Feeling around for the points on my own shoulder i found them quick enough and also very painfull the two points being close together make them a broard target.

correction one major striking target in front of the shoulder two at the back of the shoulder. The one at the front is very painfull.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Eazy,

Meridians are not pressure points, they're flow channels for energy, and the specific points are more related to acupressure and acupuncture than "pressure points". They do overlap to a degree, but taking them as the same as each other isn't correct.m Oh, and dislocating from a hard strike to the shoulder is a little optomistic, I feel.

That said, for a diagram, it's pretty good.

 

[Eazy]

It seems there are two types of martial artists on this forum. Those who train using vital points and those that think vital points don't have practical application if indeed they exist at all.
Personally, I teach vital points. To my mind, if I'm going to strike someone and I see an opening, I am going to strike that area as hard as I can. If there is a vital point in that target area I will try to hit it. If I succeed, great. If I fail my strike is still as effective as someone who is just hitting blindly.
Now back to the list of vids in the OP. Amongst those were a couple of Russell Stutely's tapes that were given a bit of a bath. I have a lot of time for RS and have a number of his DVDs. One of those vids was of Russell's BAR system and believe me it is not only easy to use and logical ... it also works like a treat. I was disappointed that they were dismissed as ineffective. So, my suggestion is, don't put things down for the sake of bagging vital point strikes. Sure there are some charletans out there (eg Kiai Master!), but not all are bad.
Now as to the no touch KO. I've never seen it so I can't make a judgement. If there are people on the forum who have experienced a no touch ko, or an attempt at one, I'd like to here from them. If, like me, you have had that opportunity then how can you say it's BS or not? I've seen many people put down to the floor without being touched, NOT ko'd, although it wasn't effective against me.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant but it annoys me when people make strong comments in areas of which they have no knowledge or understanding. :asian:

Good point. Pressure or vital points may be used by law enforcment once someone is in cuffs to controll them or maybe security. Sometimes vital points provoke agression if used unessasarilly by law enforcment some police like to try them out on cuffed people to see if they work at all im sure and they do hurt so it becomes like poking a wild animal in a cage with a stick (not good).

 

[Eazy]

Hi Eazy,

Meridians are not pressure points, they're flow channels for energy, and the specific points are more related to acupressure and acupuncture than "pressure points". They do overlap to a degree, but taking them as the same as each other isn't correct.m Oh, and dislocating from a hard strike to the shoulder is a little optomistic, I feel.

That said, for a diagram, it's pretty good.

Yep thnks Chris i have put a new chart here that tells me exactly that.

 

[Eazy]

http://www.seiwakai.co.za/html/karate_pressure_points.html
Another chart.