Practicing with a bigger guy

[Manny]

Well, I am not the average Méxican, I am a mix of italian/french with hispanic and I am tall and heavy, I'm 6 feet tall and 260 pounds and it's easy to me to do the kenpo techs on other of my classmates, however yestarday working with a Hungarian classmate who is taller than I ( I guess he is 6' 4") and well built I was having a hard time trying to defend myself so I had to aplly more force to subdue him. It was nice to see that no matter I feel strong there are stronger men on the streets and I have to use more force to cope a bigger man.

How do you subdue a bigger fellow inside dojo?

Manny

 

[dianhsuhe]

I don't...I run around the dojo until they get tired, then I kick them in the nuts.

 

[Xinglu]

I don't...I run around the dojo until they get tired, then I kick them in the nuts.

LOL, and what if the fox won't chase the rabbit :wink2:

Manny, personally, I'm five foot nothing. That makes just about every non-child opponent bigger than me. I like fighting bug guys mostly because they think that power and force is everything. They tend to forget about technique and speed.

Step one: establish a psychological advantage.
Step two: hit the openings they give you with speed, accuracy, and use those to re-establish number one (I like to wink at them... it aggravates them into doing things they normally wouldn't). Remember, big men like to fight very differently then small guys (or average guys) the real key is to get them to fight on your terms and not theirs. If I play their game (the big guy fighting game), I lose. But if they play mine... I win. :burp:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Well, I am not the average Méxican, I am a mix of italian/french with hispanic and I am tall and heavy, I'm 6 feet tall and 260 pounds and it's easy to me to do the kenpo techs on other of my classmates, however yestarday working with a Hungarian classmate who is taller than I ( I guess he is 6' 4") and well built I was having a hard time trying to defend myself so I had to aplly more force to subdue him. It was nice to see that no matter I feel strong there are stronger men on the streets and I have to use more force to cope a bigger man.

How do you subdue a bigger fellow inside dojo?

Manny

Start thinking like a small guy; because, you are. This is why it is so great to train with a lot of different body types. As for how to become stronger in the face of a larger opponent... guideline. But you knew that.:yoda:
Sean

 

[dianhsuhe]

LOL, and what if the fox won't chase the rabbit :wink2:


Step one: establish a psychological advantage.
Step two: hit the openings they give you with speed, accuracy, and use those to re-establish number one (I like to wink at them... it aggravates them into doing things they normally wouldn't). Remember, big men like to fight very differently then small guys (or average guys) the real key is to get them to fight on your terms and not theirs. If I play their game (the big guy fighting game), I lose. But if they play mine... I win. :burp:

If the Fox won't chase me then I have no need to subdue him/her. Avoidance is the greatest skill we can exercise.

Daniel- Bring your sparring gear Monday.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Well, I am not the average Méxican, I am a mix of italian/french with hispanic and I am tall and heavy, I'm 6 feet tall and 260 pounds and it's easy to me to do the kenpo techs on other of my classmates, however yestarday working with a Hungarian classmate who is taller than I ( I guess he is 6' 4") and well built I was having a hard time trying to defend myself so I had to aplly more force to subdue him. It was nice to see that no matter I feel strong there are stronger men on the streets and I have to use more force to cope a bigger man.

How do you subdue a bigger fellow inside dojo?

Manny

Force is not the best answer.. It can be used but force is used in place of good technique.
The key with going against bigger guys is to make sure your angles of attack are correct, really get control of their HWD zones and control them, and when they are attacking you have to choose when to start your defense... againt bigger attackers you have a much smaller window to get things right, our techniques are all designed to capitalize on mistakes our opponent makes, so against bigger guys you need to try to get that first mistake to be bigger then usual and you have a better chance to succeed.

Consider yoruself lucky to have a bigger guy in your classes.. I am one of the biggest around.. 6'3" and 260.. I have to search out bigger opponents.
Take advantage of it, and have him gradually increase his resistance, and work on your control of his body..

Using force is going to get you tired... and that is a bad thing in a fight.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

If the Fox won't chase me then I have no need to subdue him/her. Avoidance is the greatest skill we can exercise.

Daniel- Bring your sparring gear Monday.

For those talking about making them chase you... you have an issue... what if they are armed?
Do you really want to back up and give the opponent the chance to pull a gun and kill you?

Making space and running can be a good thing, but it can be the worst thing as well..

You have got to learn to examine the environment and the opponent and make the best decisions based on the entire picture. I highly recommend you do not use the cut and run manuever everytime a bigger guy faces you...

 

[Xinglu]

For those talking about making them chase you... you have an issue... what if they are armed?
Do you really want to back up and give the opponent the chance to pull a gun and kill you?

Making space and running can be a good thing, but it can be the worst thing as well..

You have got to learn to examine the environment and the opponent and make the best decisions based on the entire picture. I highly recommend you do not use the cut and run manuever everytime a bigger guy faces you...

Ahem... the question was how to deal with a larger person in the dojo... like in sparring... If you're having to deal with opponents armed with knives and guns during your dojo's sparring sessions perhaps you should consider another studio....

 

[MJS]

Well, I am not the average Méxican, I am a mix of italian/french with hispanic and I am tall and heavy, I'm 6 feet tall and 260 pounds and it's easy to me to do the kenpo techs on other of my classmates, however yestarday working with a Hungarian classmate who is taller than I ( I guess he is 6' 4") and well built I was having a hard time trying to defend myself so I had to aplly more force to subdue him. It was nice to see that no matter I feel strong there are stronger men on the streets and I have to use more force to cope a bigger man.

How do you subdue a bigger fellow inside dojo?

Manny

With bigger people you will notice that you do have to adapt whatever it is you're doing, to that person. Sometimes you will have to go a bit harder as well. Nothing wrong with some contact in the dojo.

 

[Sigung86]

61 years old... 5' 11.5" tall. 230 pounds of fighting fury... I still think gun.

 

[dianhsuhe]

For those talking about making them chase you... you have an issue... what if they are armed?
Do you really want to back up and give the opponent the chance to pull a gun and kill you?

Making space and running can be a good thing, but it can be the worst thing as well..

You have got to learn to examine the environment and the opponent and make the best decisions based on the entire picture. I highly recommend you do not use the cut and run manuever everytime a bigger guy faces you...

Dave, you missed the humor train...again! You seem so serious...did you read the whole thread? We have "an issue"? LOL

If they are armed then I run in a zig-zag pattern until they run out of ammo then I come back and kick 'em in the nuts..

As it happens I do not have to, "learn to examine the environment and the opponent and make the best decisions based on the entire picture". I might because it is a good idea but not simply because you mentioned it..LOL

 

[dianhsuhe]

6'3" and 260lbs.? I can definitely outrun you then...Even whilst zig-zagging! Even if you are wearing one of those low-drag sleeveless shirts!

I will continue to stay light-hearted but it is worth mentioning that your "assertiveness" is annoying.

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

6'3" and 260lbs.? I can definitely outrun you then...Even whilst zig-zagging! Even if you are wearing one of those low-drag sleeveless shirts!

I will continue to stay light-hearted but it is worth mentioning that your "assertiveness" is annoying.

I would be willing to take that Bet about the outrunning lol.. we should really get together and play a bit, since we both are in San Diego... and I mean that as written.. you say you and Jason Gonzalez are friends, call him and ask him about me.. he will back my comment that I can be taken at my word on that.

Also if the comment was about how to handle a big man in the dojo, I would think the point is trying to learn how to handle it in the streets.. running as the go to plan can get you into trouble and I was pointing it out..

regardless of how humurous you want to be, the point is I take self defense serious, because to many schools and clowns out there don't, they teach crap to their students.. including the whole zig zagging until the opponent runs out of bullets and then going to kick them in the nuts. You may have been joking, but there are people that teach similar thoughts to that...lol

I am assertive only about that which I know to be true.
If you think I am wrong then please lets discuss it, but dont try to cover up your comments as me being overly assertive, and you just being humorous, thats a copout and avoiding addressing the comments all together.

Once again I would really love to see you outrun me, or any large athletic opponent, over a short a distance when we are engaged in a confrontation, I simply can't see that happening in the vast majority of cases, especially if you have to backpedal, or sidestep to try to get away from the confrontation.... If you don't believe me try it out..

I will admit however that I completely missed your obvious humor in your post to Manny... doing multiple things, and reading your post as written, combined with all the similar comments I have heard from people led to my comments...

 

[Xinglu]

Don't make me use my force choke... you can't outrun the force :wink:

 

[dianhsuhe]

Every once in awhile I like to joke a bit on the forums, the zig-zag is clearly a reference to that will ferrel movie where he is running away from a dinosaur (he called it a serpentine pattern I think).

I am sure that "Manny" knew I was kidding about running around and the kick in the nuts.

I have a sense of humor, maybe it is a fault...

I have not seen Jason in years, he could probably attest to my running speed but not much else.

Jamey

 

[Xinglu]

Also if the comment was about how to handle a big man in the dojo, I would think the point is trying to learn how to handle it in the streets..

Before, I issue any form of response to this, let me clarify with a few questions.

So you train for real fights in your dojo and you don't "spar" like "lesser dojo's and schools"? No pads... on hard ground... obstacles on the floor, improvised weapons laying around... live weapons and full contact?

Do you allow eye gouging?
Biting?
Throat shots?
Do you forgo cups and all other safety equipment (because you won't have those on the street)?

Do you really think the sole purpose of sparing it to train for a street fight?

 

[LuckyKBoxer]

Before, I issue any form of response to this, let me clarify with a few questions.

So you train for real fights in your dojo and you don't "spar" like "lesser dojo's and schools"? No pads... on hard ground... obstacles on the floor, improvised weapons laying around... live weapons and full contact?

Do you allow eye gouging?
Biting?
Throat shots?
Do you forgo cups and all other safety equipment (because you won't have those on the street)?

Do you really think the sole purpose of sparing it to train for a street fight?

Do you want a ridiculous answer to your ridiculous question?

While many of those things are not practiced, they are pointed out. We do Kenpo, we work on controlling our opponent in a confrontation so that we eliminate their ability to eye gouge, bite, strike our throats, kick us in the nuts in any confrontation.

I do not wear a cup unless we are doing drills that I have to allow my partner to strike my groin.. I do not spar with a cup.. We do recommend our students do it, and I can not remember any tournament that allowed the option to not wear one.

Unless I missed the point of the kenpo forum, that this was posted into, then I have to say my answer was from a kenpo viewpoint.. at least the American Kenpo I study. Other arts might have different answers... I am giving the answer from a Kenpo viewpoint, not Tae Kwon Do, or another art.

I never said anything about other schools being lesser schools or dojos.. once again a paranoid person makes assumptions about something instead of asking questions so they feel superior, or so they can demean the person they are talking to. Get a grip on reality pal.... sure we point spar, sure we do touch only sparring drills.... we do light contact sparring drills.. and we do full contact sparring drills... we do random attacker drills, and we do drills where the "bad guys" have hidden weapons, including clubs, knifes and guns... fake of course..we do techniques and work on our abilities to manipulate our opponents body to control them so they are unable to do the things you describe... is it fullproof? Of course not, nobody except those dedicating their full time to the study will ever come close to perfecting kenpo, and I have yet to see anyone who has perfected it even spending full time... but thats the goal.. to defend onesself in a real confrontation, against whatever possible scenario.. Choosing to run everytime is a bad choice as a first go to choice.. I never said its not a choice, just that it can be an issue in a real encounter if any one of several scenarios happen to be true.

I can appreciate the humor.. but I thought the question was a serious one, from someone wanting a serious response.. land of the lost was funny... Will was funny... the comment was funny... Never said it wasn't... I just gave a realistic answer... whats so wrong with that?

 

[Xinglu]

Do you want a ridiculous answer to your ridiculous question?

Sure, why not? But I asked seven questions, so perhaps seven ridiculous answers would be in order?

While many of those things are not practiced, they are pointed out. We do Kenpo, we work on controlling our opponent in a confrontation so that we eliminate their ability to eye gouge, bite, strike our throats, kick us in the nuts in any confrontation. I do not wear a cup unless we are doing drills that I have to allow my partner to strike my groin.. I do not spar with a cup.. We do recommend our students do it, and I can not remember any tournament that allowed the option to not wear one.

Okay...

Unless I missed the point of the kenpo forum, that this was posted into, then I have to say my answer was from a kenpo viewpoint.. at least the American Kenpo I study. Other arts might have different answers... I am giving the answer from a Kenpo viewpoint, not Tae Kwon Do, or another art.

Being that we are in a Kenpo forum, I would have hoped that you would give you interpretation of a kenpo answer. In fact, everyone here gave an answer from a kenpo stand point, even the kenpoka who answered with levity. So, can you show me where anyone said otherwise? Furthermore, will Kara-Ho give the same answer as EPAK? or as SKK? I doubt it. Each system of Kenpo has different approaches to everything, to me that is the beauty of it. There is no black and white answer. Not even in Kenpo. Heck, not even in EPAK, because it is all relative to the practitioner and what they bring to the table.

I never said anything about other schools being lesser schools or dojos.. once again a paranoid person makes assumptions about something instead of asking questions so they feel superior, or so they can demean the person they are talking to. Get a grip on reality pal....

And I'm sure that it's your interpretation of reality that you want me to grip onto... :wink: I asked questions, how did they demean you? However, you demean me by labels (such as paranoid) and by implication: unrealistic (because I don't have that grip you seem to want me to have) and ridiculous (because, in your opinion, I ask ridiculous things).

It's cool, I'm a big boy and don't take it personally, but in the future, it will help your argument to drop the ad hominem elements.

sure we point spar, sure we do touch only sparring drills.... we do light contact sparring drills.. and we do full contact sparring drills... we do random attacker drills, and we do drills where the "bad guys" have hidden weapons, including clubs, knifes and guns... fake of course..we do techniques and work on our abilities to manipulate our opponents body to control them so they are unable to do the things you describe... is it fullproof? Of course not, nobody except those dedicating their full time to the study will ever come close to perfecting kenpo, and I have yet to see anyone who has perfected it even spending full time... but thats the goal.. to defend onesself in a real confrontation, against whatever possible scenario.. Choosing to run everytime is a bad choice as a first go to choice.. I never said its not a choice, just that it can be an issue in a real encounter if any one of several scenarios happen to be true.

This is what I was looking for. Thank you.

I can appreciate the humor.. but I thought the question was a serious one, from someone wanting a serious response.. land of the lost was funny... Will was funny... the comment was funny... Never said it wasn't... I just gave a realistic answer... whats so wrong with that?

I never said you didn't appreciate it, nor did I ever imply you didn't. Likewise, I never speculated or implied anything as to how funny you found anything about anything.

I never even criticized or asked questions about your answer to the OP. I asked questions about something you said in response to me pointing out that Manny's question related to "in the dojo." Clearly, that provoked you, and that's fine. But let's hang me for things I actually said and did, not the other disagreements you may or may not have with other posters.

So to be clear, my questions had nothing to do with your initial response to the OP, how funny you thought anything was, if you can appreciate anything, or as to weather or not kenpo or non kenpo answers were given. They had everything to do with your response, which I quoted before asking. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Manny]

Every once in awhile I like to joke a bit on the forums, the zig-zag is clearly a reference to that will ferrel movie where he is running away from a dinosaur (he called it a serpentine pattern I think).

I am sure that "Manny" knew I was kidding about running around and the kick in the nuts.

I have a sense of humor, maybe it is a fault...

I have not seen Jason in years, he could probably attest to my running speed but not much else.

Jamey

Yes I knew you were kidding, but it makes sense on the street runing around the BIG gay and kick him in the nuts.

I have a sense of humor too, jejejejeje.

Manny

 

[still learning]

Hello, When facing bigger guys? ....on the streets...become the "cat" and fight like one....

Seen lots of dogs running away too...from a cat that is cornor....
(note: the cats sometimes lose too...)

Street fights has... NO rules....do what one must to survive...let the eyes have it!

Aloha, ... Biting works too.....snacks anyone?