ppko & xequat take a look

[Simon Curran]

Hi again,

It's not that I am denying any validity to pressure point training, but standing and waving your arms around in front of someone's face, or even shouting from 15 feet away in order to KO...
Please excuse my cynicism, but I'm not convinced.

 

[RRouuselot]

Hey Robert, you got famous. Some people are bitching about this thread, over on the KI forum, where you got some of the clips.

--Dave

Famous might be an over statement..... ;-)

One or two guys moaning about me being an "Internet warrior" and how everything is so "fair" over there and how everyone gets along so well.
God forbid anyone challenge someone's ideas or concepts.....or even worse ask them to explain in detail their postion on a topic.

Whatever....if they want to train like those mpegs and put them on the Internet they will have to live with the fact that some people disagree with their methods.

 

[RRouuselot]

Whilst not defending the staged way in which some of these clips were done, I will say this. The very first time I experienced a pressure point technique, my instructor told me to take his head off.......
--Dave

Dave,
Ya, but see that's just it. You actually tried to do something and were moving....which makes it far more difficult.
Those guys in the mpegs might as well be frozen.....hell anybody can take their time and hit someone where ever and when ever when that person is standing still.
It takes skill to pop someone that's moving.

 

[Simon Curran]

I think we are in agreement there RROUSELOT,

Standing around waiting to be hti isn't my idea of proving a martial art's techniques, especially if that involves something as unconvincing as shouting in order to produce a knockout, if that were really possible, I'm sure that law enforcement and the military would have investigated it some time ago...

 

[TChase]

Here are a few more URLs with bogus techniques……they are good for a laugh…enjoy

what can I say.....pure crap
http://www.ssmma.com/videos/multiple_attackers.mov

Ahhhhhh yes.....American Kenpo at it's absolute worst. Actually, I have seen worse than that believe it or not. Who is that guy anyway?

 

[Turbo]

Here is the first person I ever saw do the eye ko:

http://www.ryukyu-kyusho.com/videoclips.htm

I wish you guys would quit harping on NO Touch KO's! Who Cares! NO one has ever said they will use them in a fight situation! They are only using them as a training tool! So What....You have guys breaking bricks with there head! Like you need to practice your headbutt on bricks--rip on that for a while.

I went to a KI seminar in Oct and Master Corn Knocked me the F*** out! I have no dought the strikes work!

 

[D.Cobb]

Dave,
Ya, but see that's just it. You actually tried to do something and were moving....which makes it far more difficult.
Those guys in the mpegs might as well be frozen.....hell anybody can take their time and hit someone where ever and when ever when that person is standing still.
It takes skill to pop someone that's moving.

Yeah I agree with you there, but the point I was trying to make is that some of those SOFT shots do actually work. I have been knocked wobbly by a rub. The softest of rubs along the jaw line.

I guess that actually shows the skill level of my former instructor, he could go soft at speed and still do the business.

--Dave :asian:

 

[RRouuselot]

Here is the first person I ever saw do the eye ko:

http://www.ryukyu-kyusho.com/videoclips.htm

1) I wish you guys would quit harping on NO Touch KO's! Who Cares! NO one has ever said they will use them in a fight situation! They are only using them as a training tool!
2) So What....You have guys breaking bricks with there head! Like you need to practice your headbutt on bricks--rip on that for a while.

3) I went to a KI seminar in Oct and Master Corn Knocked me the F*** out! I have no dought the strikes work!

1) I am sure you wish people would stop discussing them.
2) People claimed that breaking stuff with your head was "just a training tool" and that was proven to be a useless and stupid exhibition just as "no touch KOs" have been.
3) Yeah I can KO people while they are standing still too....what's your point?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Ahhhhhh yes.....American Kenpo at it's absolute worst. Actually, I have seen worse than that believe it or not. Who is that guy anyway?

i cannot believe that there is worse out there......
i like the way the uke stands there to get his head knocked off with pirouettes and breakdancing after doing the most half hearted punch ever

shawn

 

[RRouuselot]

What do you guys think of these mpegs?

http://www.jimcornskarate.com/video.php?location=video/jimko1.mpg


Here are some questions to consider:

1) Is the "attacker" actually attacking or just standing there?

2) Does the demo show any kind of set up for "self-defense" tactic or is it merely showing some guy that has been "placed" in a postion and then whacked?

3) Should the person explain the technique and then actually do the technique with some degree realism? or just do it they way it is done on the mpegs?

 

[RRouuselot]

Yeah I agree with you there, but the point I was trying to make is that some of those SOFT shots do actually work. I have been knocked wobbly by a rub. The softest of rubs along the jaw line.

I guess that actually shows the skill level of my former instructor, he could go soft at speed and still do the business.

--Dave :asian:

Dave,

Agreed. Soft shots do work. In fact that is one of my complaints with some of what I see on these mpegs. There is no need to pound someone into the ground with a technique. In fact hitting them really hard ....saying along the side of the neck is just like hitting them in the jaw with a cross. It's not "kyusho".

 

[D.Cobb]

What do you guys think of these mpegs?

http://www.jimcornskarate.com/video.php?location=video/jimko1.mpg


Here are some questions to consider:

1) Is the "attacker" actually attacking or just standing there?

2) Does the demo show any kind of set up for "self-defense" tactic or is it merely showing some guy that has been "placed" in a postion and then whacked?

3) Should the person explain the technique and then actually do the technique with some degree realism? or just do it they way it is done on the mpegs?

1) The attack is limited... that is the attacker has grabbed but there is no follow up.

2) No actual set up is being done, but in fairness, these vids are of something being taught. That being said, if it were me, I wouldn't post these because they are not realistic self defence. Then again, Jim Corn has a reputation for being extremely effective in what he does, and I have seen some stuff where he does it in motion.

3) i think for techniques being posted on the internet, maybe they could be explained and then done at speed. Intensity in the attack is what proves the effectiveness of the technique.

--Dave

 

[RRouuselot]

1) The attack is limited... that is the attacker has grabbed but there is no follow up.

2) No actual set up is being done, but in fairness, these vids are of something being taught. That being said, if it were me, I wouldn't post these because they are not realistic self defence. Then again, Jim Corn has a reputation for being extremely effective in what he does, and I have seen some stuff where he does it in motion.

3) i think for techniques being posted on the internet, maybe they could be explained and then done at speed. Intensity in the attack is what proves the effectiveness of the technique.

--Dave

1) to me that might as well mean they are sleeping. You will fight the way you train. If there is not even a slight degree of realism the training is wasted time. Granted there is no need to go full out when learning but there should be an effort gradually increased to make it more and more realistic. Since most of the folks on those mpegs claim to be “masters” or at the very least have some lofty rank I would expect a better demonstration of technique. Demonstrating on a non-active person is not demonstrating how a technique works against an attack….it’s just demonstrating on how to hit someone standing still.


3) True

 

[The Prof]

Believe it or not, this is a valid knock out. I have been using it for years and it still gets peoples attention because they think that it's a set up. But when I get to them and slap the biggest guy, the rest become instant believers.

Don't get me wrong here, I am not a knock out artist. I do not even know how it works, I just know that it does and I have been doing it (just this one) for nearly thirty years. No one taught me, I stumbled upon it by chance while sparring in my younger years.

In my life I only used it one time in a real situation. I did not mean to do it, it just came out and a very surprised young man went down. It scared the heck out of me but he learned what my students have referred to for years as "The Old Prof's special course on instant respect." Keep in mind now, that everything does not necessarily work on everyone. So it pays to know a few. (I only know one)

If there is anyone out there in the West Pal Beach area that wishes to see it or learn it, please contact me. I have no secrets, what I know I will gladly teach.
www.niseido.org
:asian:

 

[MJS]

Here are some questions to consider:

1) Is the "attacker" actually attacking or just standing there?

Just standing there.

2) Does the demo show any kind of set up for "self-defense" tactic or is it merely showing some guy that has been "placed" in a postion and then whacked?

It appears to me that the 'attackers' are pre-placed.

3) Should the person explain the technique and then actually do the technique with some degree realism? or just do it they way it is done on the mpegs?

Well, it doesn't look like there is any explaination, just application. The clips just show the KO so we really don't know what, if anything, was said before or after. Speaking for myself, when I'm teaching a tech. I like to do the tech. first, and then go back and explain what was done.

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

Keep in mind now, that everything does not necessarily work on everyone. So it pays to know a few. (I only know one)

REAL technique works on everyone....

 

[RRouuselot]

I only really wanted to post on kyusho.com in response to a certain “dipstick” who based on all his vast knowledge about called me (read= none) an “internet warrior” and a “Web Forum know it all”.

Since I don’t really have the time, or interest, to be jumping back and forth between here and kyusho.com I have invited the members on kyusho.com to come here and have a discussion on the mpeg issue. So far I don’t see any takers……I don’t expect too many either since the kyusho.com people all want to huddle together and tell each other how right they are...even though I have posted I won’t be participating on their BB any more people are still asking me questions ….I guess they don’t read so well over there. Must be from all those kyusho shots to the eyes!

 

[MJS]

Don't get me wrong here, I am not a knock out artist. I do not even know how it works, I just know that it does and I have been doing it (just this one) for nearly thirty years. No one taught me, I stumbled upon it by chance while sparring in my younger years.

(I only know one)

Question for you. If this KO is the only one that you know, and you've been doing it for the past 30 yrs., then one would think that knowledge of the ins and outs of the tech. should be known, correct?

Now, I'm no PP expert, but I would think, that knowing what will happen when those points are hit, would be crucial.

Robert--Please feel free to give your input on this as well. :asian:

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

Question for you. If this KO is the only one that you know, and you've been doing it for the past 30 yrs., then one would think that knowledge of the ins and outs of the tech. should be known, correct?

Now, I'm no PP expert, but I would think, that knowing what will happen when those points are hit, would be crucial.

Robert--Please feel free to give your input on this as well. :asian:

Mike

I have no idea what technique he is actually referring to. Knowing that would help in giving an answer.

However, if someone was doing something for 30 years I would expect them to knew a little something about what they were doing….why or how it worked.



For example when I first see/try and learn a new technique after a while I try and figure out what will stop it, block it or otherwise make it ineffective. I do this so I will A) understand what is the right and wrong way to do the technique and B) so I can protect myself against it. If people are not taking the time to understand what they are doing then it seems like they are wasting time……. in my opinion.

 

[MJS]

I have no idea what technique he is actually referring to. Knowing that would help in giving an answer.

However, if someone was doing something for 30 years I would expect them to knew a little something about what they were doing….why or how it worked.



For example when I first see/try and learn a new technique after a while I try and figure out what will stop it, block it or otherwise make it ineffective. I do this so I will A) understand what is the right and wrong way to do the technique and B) so I can protect myself against it. If people are not taking the time to understand what they are doing then it seems like they are wasting time……. in my opinion.

Thank you Sir!! :asian: :asian:

Mike