Power generation drill

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Some teachers may say if you train MA long enough, you will understand power generation. I prefer to find a set of solo drills that any beginner can understand power generation within 3 months.

I like this simple power generation drill. His punch coordinates with his leading foot landing. When his body starts to move, all body parts start to move at the same time. When his body stops, all body parts stop at the same time.

What do you call this punch in your MA system?

What's your opinion on this power generation training?

 
Last edited:

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,230
Reaction score
4,920
Location
San Francisco
Some teachers may say if you train MA long enough, you will understand power generation. I prefer to find a set of solo drills that any beginner can understand power generation within 3 months.

I like this simple power generation drill. His punch coordinates with his leading foot landing. When his body starts to move, all body parts start to move at the same time. When his body stops, all body parts stop at the same time.

What do you call this punch in your MA system?

What's your opinion on this power generation training?

I think it’s a good method within its context. I agree that a good system ought to have a specific methodology for developing power generation and it shouldn’t just be left to “eventually you will ‘get’ it”.

Power generation is a major principle upon which a system ought to be built. The application of the techniques ought to be with the power method in mind, so that they work together. This creates a consistent method, which is important in one’s development.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
That punch looks similar to our horse stance thrust punch. I think it came naturally for me to punch at the same time my foot lands. I think if you have someone do advancing jabs with a shuffle forward the concept of foot landing when punch lands, will eventually occur naturally as the most comfortable way to advance with the jab. I think that is how it worked out for me. For example. do 3 quick advancing jabs and the footwork almost demands that the foot and punch land together.

I think if I wanted a beginner to learn the concept. I would have the beginner do the 3 advancing jabs and have them take know of when their foot lands and when they punch. Once they get the right feel for that, then I would have them do the same for other punches.

I'm with Flying Crane on this one. The power generation of landing the foot with the punch is going to be different depending on the punching technique being done.

A student can do these same exercises and probably get the concept and timing down in about 5 minutes or maybe less. Front foot lands with the punch.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
The double hip punch is interested. You rotate your left hip forward, you then rotate your left hip back, rotate your right hip forward, and punch.


To stretch one side of your body forward to the extreme, you then move your other side of your body to the extreme (compress and release) is commonly used in the CMA systems.

adam-jab.gif
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
15,230
Reaction score
4,920
Location
San Francisco
The double hip punch is interested. You rotate your left hip forward, you then rotate your left hip back, rotate your right hip forward, and punch.

Interesting video. I find it odd, and at the same time feel like it is a cousin of the method used in Tibetan crane. A different manifestation of the same core concept.

Clearly it is effective, nevermind they the fellow is twice the size of the other fellow holding the striking pad.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
Interesting video. I find it odd, and at the same time feel like it is a cousin of the method used in Tibetan crane. A different manifestation of the same core concept.

Clearly it is effective, nevermind they the fellow is twice the size of the other fellow holding the striking pad.
ha ha ha.. always get someone a little shorter and lighter then you when you demonstrate power lol. The other thing is the way the pads are being held. The pad holder doesn't get the impact damage but get the energy from it.. It's a nice solid pad too, so not much is being absorb.

Us a pad that's full of plastic bags and all of that power vanishes. I have a pad like that and I use it when I want to strike hard but not kill the pad holder. I try to kill that bag, but it absorbs everything and makes me feel like I have the weakest strikes lol. But it saves the pad holder so I don't mind.
 

Hanshi

Blue Belt
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
232
Reaction score
176
Location
Virginia
This is all very informative and validates principles which are taught in whole or in part in most martial arts. The mechanics of the demonstrations are well explained. Going a bit off the subject it is necessary to understand that power is composed of several features outside the mechanics. Many students do not understand this unless it is brought to their attention. Among these features are strength, speed, intent, mental clarity, relaxation and more. After 60 years of training I'm still learning about these principles.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
When I punch with cross, I like to hop in. This way I can coordinate my punch with my leading foot landing. Also this will give me more reach.

Most MA systems don't do this. Why?

Adam-cross.gif
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
When I punch with cross, I like to hop in. This way I can coordinate my punch with my leading foot landing. Also this will give me more reach.

Most MA systems don't do this. Why?

Adam-cross.gif
In my experience, it would be rare that my opponent or attacker is so far that I need to hop forward like that for a reverse punch. When someone is trying to beat you up, then they are pretty much on top of you which is the problem. I also think that people do punch with forward movement on a reverse punch. I just don't think they do it as demonstrated in your clip.


This video shows the problem that an attacker will come to you and it shows the forward movement on the reverse punch that you talk about.
 
OP
Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
In my experience, it would be rare that my opponent or attacker is so far that I need to hop forward like that for a reverse punch.
You may always think you are the good guy (be attacked). I always think I'm the bad guy (start attack).

In your clip, you look at the wrong guy. When the MMA guy attacks, he hops forward big time. He may not hop the same way as my clip shows. But if he knows how, I'm sure he will.

 
Last edited:

jobo

Grandmaster
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
9,762
Reaction score
1,514
Location
Manchester UK
ha ha ha.. always get someone a little shorter and lighter then you when you demonstrate power lol. The other thing is the way the pads are being held. The pad holder doesn't get the impact damage but get the energy from it.. It's a nice solid pad too, so not much is being absorb.

Us a pad that's full of plastic bags and all of that power vanishes. I have a pad like that and I use it when I want to strike hard but not kill the pad holder. I try to kill that bag, but it absorbs everything and makes me feel like I have the weakest strikes lol. But it saves the pad holder so I don't mind.
I ( used to when it was happening) play a game with a very well built fellow student, where you take turns to hold a solid pad on the middle of you chest and the other one tries to hit hard enough to make you take a step back ( legs together) it a) really hurts and b) really helps you assess your power, if you can move a 250 lb guy your hitting fairly hard, it's not hard to visualise the 3effect it would have with no pad when you've knocked the air out of their lungs with a pad
 

Damien

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
247
Reaction score
206
Location
Sydney
Some teachers may say if you train MA long enough, you will understand power generation. I prefer to find a set of solo drills that any beginner can understand power generation within 3 months.

I like this simple power generation drill. His punch coordinates with his leading foot landing. When his body starts to move, all body parts start to move at the same time. When his body stops, all body parts stop at the same time.

What do you call this punch in your MA system?

What's your opinion on this power generation training?


Although the stance work is a little different, it's like a front arm Gong Bu strike, which is very much like a fencing lunge; the power comes from the dropping of the weight downwards as well as moving forwards. Interestingly how you step the foot changes the dynamic completely- try toes landing then sinking to the heel vs heel sanding and sinking to the toes. It's a pretty fundamental movement pattern, but does seem to be lost in a lot of modern CMA, there's an over reliance on twisting motions.

Same goes for the stepping cross. You see it as an overhand in things like boxing and MMA, but less often elsewhere. You do see it in some forms though. One explanation is that a lot of application and sparring these days is focused on the mid range, where you just can't reach your opponent and have to step in to then throw your strikes. A lot of the power generation in this range is from rotation of the body, step out to a longer range and bigger movements where the power comes from moving your weight becomes a lot more important. It's one reason people often say you don't see traditional techniques in sparring, a lot of that stuff is "longfist" i.e. intended to be used at a longer range. It's not for two people squaring up and going at each other, but for defending yourself or fighting in a larger group context, where actually you don't want to stand toe to toe with someone.

I've seen that double hip punch before too, looks like a stanceless but exaggerated Ma Bu punch, or simply a one two without the one.
 

Damien

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
247
Reaction score
206
Location
Sydney
IMO, it's mostly used when you advance while your opponent move back. I call this "running punch".


Yep of course, another good use- essentially the opponent is trying to take you into that long range, and you don't let them!
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
13,954
Reaction score
5,843
Yep of course, another good use- essentially the opponent is trying to take you into that long range, and you don't let them!
I'm going to go out on a limb. I think the other guy was outmatch 100%. He probably never had anyone rush him like that. Brawlers attack aggressively like that and trying to retreat like that is a no win strategy. When fighting against a brawler, you have to take advantage of their commitment to the attack. A fighter with good foot work would have simply taken an angle during the charge and made the brawler pay for being so eager to move forward.

To give you an example you can see how the MMA guy charges Tai Chi guy and when the Tai Chi guy takes an angle, you can see how the MMA overshoots and loses balance. This isn't some old martial arts secret. Any kid who has played Tag, basketball football, soccer, or any sport where someone charges you or chases understands the how to cut angles

He had no concept of it.

I teach students how to "weather the storm" instead of trying to always move backwards, learn to stand their ground and don't move move, this causes the punches to jab against the body casing the punches to lose power. By the 3d punch the student should have already figured out the rhythm and timing of the punches.

You can do this while also backing up (not fleeing). The faster the defender moves back the faster the attacker will charge.
 
Last edited:

Damien

Blue Belt
Joined
Mar 17, 2021
Messages
247
Reaction score
206
Location
Sydney
I'm going to go out on a limb. I think the other guy was outmatch 100%. He probably never had anyone rush him like that. Brawlers attack aggressively like that and trying to retreat like that is a no win strategy. When fighting against a brawler, you have to take advantage of their commitment to the attack. A fighter with good foot work would have simply taken an angle during the charge and made the brawler pay for being so eager to move forward.

To give you an example you can see how the MMA guy charges Tai Chi guy and when the Tai Chi guy takes an angle, you can see how the MMA overshoots and loses balance. This isn't some old martial arts secret. Any kid who has played Tag, basketball football, soccer, or any sport where someone charges you or chases understands the how to cut angles

He had no concept of it.

I teach students how to "weather the storm" instead of trying to always move backwards, learn to stand their ground and don't move move, this causes the punches to jab against the body casing the punches to lose power. By the 3d punch the student should have already figured out the rhythm and timing of the punches.

You can do this while also backing up (not fleeing). The faster the defender moves back the faster the attacker will charge.

Yeah this is a clip from one of Xu Xiaodong's challenge matches. A couple of years ago he was going round challenging self proclaimed Tai Chi masters who were making ridiculous claims online. They all ended in pretty much the same fashion. Someone who trains MMA and spars regularly vs someone who doesn't- there wasn't going to be any other ending! Led to a lot of controversy in China; he got placed under house arrest I believe at one point, there was a bit of a crisis of doubt around traditional CMA and the government actually banned people proclaiming themselves masters! As ever it is about the practitioner though, put someone who trained MMA and never sparred against someone who did Tai Chi but did (real sparring) and the result would be flipped in most cases
 

Diagen

Blue Belt
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
207
Reaction score
136
The double hip punch is interested. You rotate your left hip forward, you then rotate your left hip back, rotate your right hip forward, and punch.


To stretch one side of your body forward to the extreme, you then move your other side of your body to the extreme (compress and release) is commonly used in the CMA systems.

adam-jab.gif
lol this is what I do it's instinct to me with loose joints and some interest in momentum. Pretty sure it's a karate punch as well I've seen some high dan instructor in Japan on youtube do it. It's just swinging your hips man. Like baseball you are swinging the bat. Left and right hip connected with legs underneath you so want to get your hip forward with fast acceleration without dragging the legs. It's like cramped power generation which means efficient use of structure and good center of balance.
 

Diagen

Blue Belt
Joined
Jul 6, 2021
Messages
207
Reaction score
136
I should clarify that the left hip moves forward starting the right shoulder back through twist in waist, like the baseball bat in my analogy it starts back then swings around long and far. So jerk in hip and then the waist allows the right shoulder to move back and then move the left hip back while moving right hip forward and this helps the right shoulder move forward along with right hip. Remember that left hip moves forward, right shoulder back? When right moves forward and left back you get the left shoulder moving back, which is more angular momentum or twist for the punching fist. Lot of twisting going on.
Can start from legs which is good. Your left leg jerks and you whip the right fist out PLAP. Think of a head butt first -- you whip your head forward using your body starting from the legs or hips and using a lot of torso muscles like the waist. Then you introduce the left-right or twisting motion. Instead of head butting you whip out the fist.
I think it's basic boxing technique but the hip movement is exaggerated and there's some strength deficits that would stop you from moving into the punch. Whatever position one is strongest in is the best position to land a punch generally. Get really good at a 1 arm plank with torso arced like a cat, feet elevated 2 feet, and arm with scapula stretched out and you will get stronger with punches that land with scapula outstretched quite a bit.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
29,971
Reaction score
10,526
Location
Hendersonville, NC
When I punch with cross, I like to hop in. This way I can coordinate my punch with my leading foot landing. Also this will give me more reach.

Most MA systems don't do this. Why?

Adam-cross.gif
I suspect because of the vulnerability during that moment of the hop. Most styles I've seen are very focused on limiting what I call "uncontrolled movement", meaning moments where you don't have the ability to change direction or speed. Hops, big lunging movements, and jumping or turning kicks all have more uncontrolled movement than usual. Unless used well (within a strategy that controls the risk), they make big openings for an opponent.

So, within my practice, I'd be unlikely to use a big lunging strike like this. It simply doesn't fit with any of the strategies I know how to use. It'd have to be a really big opening for me to make that big of a move.
 

Latest Discussions

Top