Policy for Dealing with Guy B. and LFJ

[KPM]

Guy and LFJ are up to their usual antics again, and it has become clear that the moderators are not going to do anything about it unless they use "bad words" or challenge someone to a fight. They repeatedly stir up dissent and are the very opposite of "friendly discussions." They purposefully bait people, don't answer direct questions, are vague with answers they do give, and manipulate conversations to say something they don't. They clearly have an agenda in every thread. That agenda is to show that WSLVT is superior to every other version of Wing Chun and any Ip Man lineage that doesn't do things as they do them is "broken."

So I propose a policy for dealing with them. Everyone could put them on "ignore." But they do occasionally have something interesting to say. So I propose that in any discussion in which they take part and they start asking you pointed questions......before you respond....require that they provide a detailed explanation of how WSLVT does the same thing. This will prevent the long and convoluted threads that aren't very productive.

Again....before you provide any information to or answer questions from Guy B. or LFJ, require them to first describe in good detail how WSLVT views or performs the same topic they are asking about. Do not continue any discussion until they do.

 

[LFJ]

In other words, before revealing any potential gap in knowledge, get the information first, so that you can then respond saying yeah, yeah, that's we do, when it's clearly not.

 

[ShortBridge]

To be fair, I don't think their position is that WSLVT is superior to all other branches. It is the PB WSLVT is superior to all other branches. They are equally dismissive of other WSL teachers as well.

To be honest, I'd be interested in WSLVT and the videos I've seen of PB have been interesting. He looks like he has really good Wing Chun and he seems like he would be a nice guy and a good teacher. I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to learn from him or someone who learned from him.

But, the behavior you describe above is tiring and disappointing. It feels cult-like, as if PB was some type of messiah. If I acted that way about my SiGung, I would expect someone representing him to show up at my door one day and have a talk with me about how I was representing him, as well they should.

 

[LFJ]

To be fair, I don't think their position is that WSLVT is superior to all other branches. It is the PB WSLVT is superior to all other branches. They are equally dismissive of other WSL teachers as well.

To be honest, I'd be interested in WSLVT and the videos I've seen of PB have been interesting. He looks like he has really good Wing Chun and he seems like he would be a nice guy and a good teacher. I wouldn't pass up an opportunity to learn from him or someone who learned from him.

But, the behavior you describe above is tiring and disappointing. It feels cult-like, as if PB was some type of messiah. If I acted that way about my SiGung, I would expect someone representing him to show up at my door one day and have a talk with me about how I was representing him, as well they should.

I've never restricted good VT to PB. There are others. In fact, I've never referred to PB in my postings. It is other people singling him out for some reason.

And by the way, he used to post quite a bit on German forums, and he never sugarcoated his opinion of certain lineages either.

 

[ShortBridge]

Well, I don't know the man myself and don't speak German, so I have no real sense of what he might be like personally. I am very impressed with his speed, flow and structure and I have a lot of respect for who he is and what he does. As I said, I would never pass up an opportunity to learn from him or someone connected to him.

It's possible that the condescension and hubris that his students display about him is a fair representation of how he feels and behaves. If that's what you're telling me, then maybe I should take your word for it. But, I think I will instead continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's just not healthy to walk around with that much disdain for other people.

I have met some extraordinary martial artists who are heads of lineages. They have confidence and command and I don't think they regard everyone and everything as equal, but they don't feel the need to spread sanctimony either. I'm lucky to be where I am, I guess.

 

[KPM]

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In other words, before revealing any potential gap in knowledge, get the information first, so that you can then respond saying yeah, yeah, that's we do, when it's clearly not.

No. There has just been far too many instances where you have refused to answer the very questions you two have asked of others. Instances where you deflect and avoid providing information in any detail about what you do. Carrying on a discussion should be a two-way exchange, not an interrogation. Neither of you are willing to share information equally on a regular basis when you participate in a thread.

So, the best way around that is just for everyone to require that you two provide a good explanation of your understanding of a topic prior to agreeing to give you their viewpoint. If you refuse, as is your habit, then they simply don't proceed any further in the conversation. Again, that will prevent the long convoluted threads that result when you and Guy are involved in the discussion.

 

[LFJ]

It's just not healthy to walk around with that much disdain for other people.

There is no disdain for people. Not for anyone.

All I have criticized are ideas and methods, and I've explained exactly what I see wrong with them.

Some people just have too much invested and egos too big to just take an honest look at the facts and acknowledge valid points or honestly correct invalid ones. They'd rather choose to take personal offense where none was given.

 

[LFJ]

No. There has just been far too many instances where you have refused to answer the very questions you two have asked of others. Instances where you deflect and avoid providing information in any detail about what you do. Carrying on a discussion should be a two-way exchange, not an interrogation. Neither of you are willing to share information equally on a regular basis when you participate in a thread.

So, the best way around that is just for everyone to require that you two provide a good explanation of your understanding of a topic prior to agreeing to give you their viewpoint. If you refuse, as is your habit, then they simply don't proceed any further in the conversation. Again, that will prevent the long convoluted threads that result when you and Guy are involved in the discussion.

If people are honest and don't tapdance around an issue we'd get to the point much faster and you'd get your answers.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Thread locked pending staff review.

 

[Grenadier]

Admin's Note:

It is the standard Martialtalk.com policy to not make public, any decisions about what happens to someone. Just because you cannot see what may be going on, does not necessarily mean that nothing is occurring.

Furthermore, publicly telling the staff to "do something" isn't going to be looked upon very favorably.