I don't know how many others have been tracking the discussions on the relationship between Wing Chun empty hands and Wing Chun Pole. And no Jake, this is not an attempt to trick or trap anyone! 
The theory put forth is that Wing Chun empty hands must be based on and actually derived from the Pole method because they have such a close correspondence to the empty hands. The main element of this theory is this "close correspondence." However, this "close correspondence" has not yet been out-lined in any detail. I see some obvious correspondence, as I am sure many others do. But I am not seeing such a "close correspondence" that would convince me that the empty hands come entirely from the Pole method.
So I am inviting Guy or LFJ to outline that "close correspondence" to strengthen their argument and perhaps convince us that there is some merit to it.
Remember... the competing theory, which is the mainstream belief amongst most Wing Chun people that I have encountered is this......the Wing Chun empty hands method already existed, how highly developed it might have been is open to debate....then the Pole method was added to the empty hands method fairly early on. The Pole method influenced the development and evolution of the empty hand method and likely vice versa. Most lineage legendary histories say that Wong Wah Bo had learned Wing Chun empty hands from Leung Bok Chao (Yim Wing Chun's husband) and that Leung Yee Tai had learned Pole method from Chi Sim. Wong and Leung became friends on the Red Boats and exchanged techniques. Wong added Leung's Pole method to his Wing Chun and from then on they have been taught together. So over close to a 200 year period it just stands to reason that the strategies and tactics of the empty hands and Pole would track fairly closely together. Regardless of how much faith you are willing to put in to the old stories, they often have a kernel of truth in them. The kernel in this one being simply that the Pole was added after the fact to the Wing Chun empty hands, but likely at a early date in its history and that the Pole influenced the further development of the empty hands.
Examining other theories is interesting and thought-provoking and fun to discuss. So again, I hope that Guy or LFJ will provide us with a good description of the close correspondence they see between the empty hands and the Pole that will strengthen their theory that the empty hand derived entirely from the Pole method.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
The theory put forth is that Wing Chun empty hands must be based on and actually derived from the Pole method because they have such a close correspondence to the empty hands. The main element of this theory is this "close correspondence." However, this "close correspondence" has not yet been out-lined in any detail. I see some obvious correspondence, as I am sure many others do. But I am not seeing such a "close correspondence" that would convince me that the empty hands come entirely from the Pole method.
So I am inviting Guy or LFJ to outline that "close correspondence" to strengthen their argument and perhaps convince us that there is some merit to it.
Remember... the competing theory, which is the mainstream belief amongst most Wing Chun people that I have encountered is this......the Wing Chun empty hands method already existed, how highly developed it might have been is open to debate....then the Pole method was added to the empty hands method fairly early on. The Pole method influenced the development and evolution of the empty hand method and likely vice versa. Most lineage legendary histories say that Wong Wah Bo had learned Wing Chun empty hands from Leung Bok Chao (Yim Wing Chun's husband) and that Leung Yee Tai had learned Pole method from Chi Sim. Wong and Leung became friends on the Red Boats and exchanged techniques. Wong added Leung's Pole method to his Wing Chun and from then on they have been taught together. So over close to a 200 year period it just stands to reason that the strategies and tactics of the empty hands and Pole would track fairly closely together. Regardless of how much faith you are willing to put in to the old stories, they often have a kernel of truth in them. The kernel in this one being simply that the Pole was added after the fact to the Wing Chun empty hands, but likely at a early date in its history and that the Pole influenced the further development of the empty hands.
Examining other theories is interesting and thought-provoking and fun to discuss. So again, I hope that Guy or LFJ will provide us with a good description of the close correspondence they see between the empty hands and the Pole that will strengthen their theory that the empty hand derived entirely from the Pole method.
Thanks and Merry Christmas!
